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googbye top 4

Old Bill said:
If good players don't play to their ability, you don't regard that as underachieving?
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well yes, but i don't really understand what point you're trying to make - in the league last season Chelsea were poor, that isn't debatable - poorer than us - had we finished below them it would have been a disgrace as we were flying and far better than them. an example of how and when expectations can change over the course of a season
 
billyiddo said:
why does there need to be someone at fault?

we lost the heart beat and engine room of our team last season and have taken on a new manager and brought in several new faces - it's an ongoing project - do you not think that we should give the new set up a couple of season to get things how they want it?

Redknapp had 3.5 years to build his team, judging by the signings of Lloris, Vertonghen, Dembele as well as the likes of Sandro Bale and Lennon already here then id say there is reason to think we can build a team on a par to that of last season. just because it hasn't happened instantly is no need to get irate and start looking for people to blame.

jeez
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I'm not irate, I'm merely disappointed that yet again we were in a great position in January but we didn't capitalise on it and strengthen the squad which would have improved our chances of a top 4 finish. I really don't think it's knee jerk or being a bad fan to question Levy's transfer methods.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm not irate, I'm merely disappointed that yet again we were in a great position in January but we didn't capitalise on it and strengthen the squad which would have improved our chances of a top 4 finish. I really don't think it's knee jerk or being a bad fan to question Levy's transfer methods.
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have we been discussing Levy's transfer methods today?
 
Jurgen the German said:
I'm not irate, I'm merely disappointed that yet again we were in a great position in January but we didn't capitalise on it and strengthen the squad which would have improved our chances of a top 4 finish. I really don't think it's knee jerk or being a bad fan to question Levy's transfer methods.
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Agreed. At the start of the season I'd've been delighted with the position we find ourselves in. However, the way we've thrown away our lead, AGAIN, I'm certainly not ecstatic right now. Still time left but the players need to win tomorrow.
 
billyiddo said:
why does there need to be someone at fault?

we lost the heart beat and engine room of our team last season and have taken on a new manager and brought in several new faces - it's an ongoing project - do you not think that we should give the new set up a couple of season to get things how they want it?

Redknapp had 3.5 years to build his team, judging by the signings of Lloris, Vertonghen, Dembele as well as the likes of Sandro Bale and Lennon already here then id say there is reason to think we can build a team on a par to that of last season. just because it hasn't happened instantly is no need to get irate and start looking for people to blame.

jeez
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He's not the manager, he's the head coach. Seems like a petty distinction, but I've noticed our fans talk of AVB like he is the manager. He really is just there to coach the team. If he has a suggestion for a player he want, it will be listed to. But as we saw in the summer, he's not seen as a key part of the recruitment process. Also we don't need to build. We were a top 4 club. We look to consolidate and push on. But that process will continue no matter who the head coach is. If Levy decides to try someone else in the summer, it wont have anywhere near the impact our fans often think it will. Our targets and the type of squad we are trying to build will remain the same and the way the club is organised from youth level upwards remain the same.
 
joey55 said:
He's not the manager, he's the head coach. Seems like a petty distinction, but I've noticed our fans talk of AVB like he is the manager. He really is just there to coach the team. If he has a suggestion for a player he want, it will be listed to. But as we saw in the summer, he's not seen as a key part of the recruitment process. Also we don't need to build. We were a top 4 club. We look to consolidate and push on. But that process will continue no matter who the head coach is. If Levy decides to try someone else in the summer, it wont have anywhere near the impact our fans often think it will. Our targets and the type of squad we are trying to build will remain the same and the way the club is organised from youth level upwards remain the same.
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well then that's even more reason to lay off him then, wait until he's been provided with the proper tools for the job. don't judge him for not finishing top 4 with an unbalanced squad that is inferior to 5 teams in the league
 
Armchair Expert said:
To be fair he had Sevilla competing against Barca and REal for acouple of seasons running, didn't he?
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Look at what happened to them the season before he arrived. They had an extended Lasagne gate, in that they had a virus and totally collapsed and didn't win the 3 points they needed from 4 points to finish 3rd. After that look at the quality of players Monchi brought in. They were a hairs breadth from finishing 3rd, but lost out to illness. They then brought in Kanoute, Poulsen and Fabiano etc. But they still didn't finish in the top 4 for another 2 seasons. Then look what happened after Ramos left. His replacement won enough points to finish 3rd in the league. The next season they did finish 3rd. He bettered Ramos league performance despite having no experience and selling key players. Couldn't win the UEFA Cup as they were in the CL. In the Spanish Cup they drew Barca 2 years in a row. But these details are never looked into.
 
joey55 said:
Look at what happened to them the season before he arrived. They had an extended Lasagne gate, in that they had a virus and totally collapsed and didn't win the 3 points they needed from 4 points to finish 3rd. After that look at the quality of players Monchi brought in. They were a hairs breadth from finishing 3rd, but lost out to illness. They then brought in Kanoute, Poulsen and Fabiano etc. But they still didn't finish in the top 4 for another 2 seasons. Then look what happened after Ramos left. His replacement won enough points to finish 3rd in the league. The next season they did finish 3rd. He bettered Ramos league performance despite having no experience and selling key players. Couldn't win the UEFA Cup as they were in the CL. In the Spanish Cup they drew Barca 2 years in a row. But these details are never looked into.
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Apparently Ramos could have finished in the top 4 if we had kept him :-"
 
billyiddo said:
well then that's even more reason to lay off him then, wait until he's been provided with the proper tools for the job. don't judge him for not finishing top 4 with an unbalanced squad that is inferior to 5 teams in the league
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He absolutely should be judged. But not against Redknapp. The trouble is, that Redknapp got so much criticism, it's hard not to. If he isn't judged against Redknapp then AVB is doing a very decent job.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I was in the previous pages. I think AVB has done a fine job, would have done an even better job had Levy backed him to a better extent.
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ok fair enough - some points still stand though, we have brought in some top players and have the makings of a very strong side, i think Levy would have liked to provide AVB with at least two more players than he has so far (we tried for Mouthino, Willian and Damaio) that shows to me that we don't consider the team to be the finished article and that we know where we need to improve - it would have been nice to get them all in over one season but that's asking a bit much, imv
 
joey55 said:
He absolutely should be judged. But not against Redknapp. The trouble is, that Redknapp got so much criticism, it's hard not to. If he isn't judged against Redknapp then AVB is doing a very decent job.
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of course he should be judged, but on what he has to work with and against

most people seem to be comparing him, rather simplistically, to last season even though both our rivals for 4th are stronger and we've gone under quite a shift in our overall squad quality (imv of course)
 
joey55 said:
He absolutely should be judged. But not against Redknapp. The trouble is, that Redknapp got so much criticism, it's hard not to. If he isn't judged against Redknapp then AVB is doing a very decent job.
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I wouldn't judge him against Redknapp yet. Redknapp had several years to build his side. AVB has had one.
 
billyiddo said:
ok fair enough - some points still stand though, we have brought in some top players and have the makings of a very strong side, i think Levy would have liked to provide AVB with at least two more players than he has so far (we tried for Mouthino, Willian and Damaio) that shows to me that we don't consider the team to be the finished article and that we know where we need to improve - it would have been nice to get them all in over one season but that's asking a bit much, imv
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Sorry but he's had long enough to sort some of those problems out. I don't give him credit for trying to get Leandro, we've been trying to get him for so long it's become a running joke.

I mean bidding on the last day of the window for Leandro, did we honestly think that was going to come off? Did we even have anyone from the club in brazil to do a medical or would he have had to fly over to London? Just smacks to me of making it look like we're trying to sign a striker, why not just make the bid a few days earlier?

I actually saw sense in him not giving Redknapp full backing if he didn't see him as the long term option. But everyone thought the new guy would get full backing.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Sorry but he's had long enough to sort some of those problems out. I don't give him credit for trying to get Leandro, we've been trying to get him for so long it's become a running joke.

I mean bidding on the last day of the window for Leandro, did we honestly think that was going to come off? Did we even have anyone from the club in brazil to do a medical or would he have had to fly over to London? Just smacks to me of making it look like we're trying to sign a striker, why not just make the bid a few days earlier?

I actually saw sense in him not giving Redknapp full backing if he didn't see him as the long term option. But everyone thought the new guy would get full backing.
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It's said so often it hurts, but you can sign people pending a medical.

And how do you know he hasn't been given full backing?
 
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Jurgen the German said:
Sorry but he's had long enough to sort some of those problems out. I don't give him credit for trying to get Leandro, we've been trying to get him for so long it's become a running joke.

I mean bidding on the last day of the window for Leandro, did we honestly think that was going to come off? Did we even have anyone from the club in brazil to do a medical or would he have had to fly over to London? Just smacks to me of making it look like we're trying to sign a striker, why not just make the bid a few days earlier?

I actually saw sense in him not giving Redknapp full backing if he didn't see him as the long term option. But everyone thought the new guy would get full backing.
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But how can you know that AVB hasn't been given full backing? We tried for three players he REALLY wanted in Moutinho, Willian and Leandro, but they're all out of our league money wise. We still tried and came close, but that doesn't mean we now have £30 million in cash laying around that Levy refuses to spend.
 
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