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Going backwards

billyiddo said:
interesting stuff that.
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I think that it is stats like this that AVB bases his decisions on how he wants his team to play.

I am sure that we would all like to see us play a swashbuckling, devil may care, style but considering that it is a lot harder to be successful playing like that, should it be a priority now?
 
im sure it influences his decisions somewhat - we're in an awkward position, we have to challenge seriously for the CL places whilst trying to integrate a lot of new players.

come the end of the season if we're sitting in 4th it will have been deemed as a successful season for AVB (and Spurs), should we finish 5th it won't, regardless of how many times we stick the ball in the net or how stylish we looked at our best.
 
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
 
billyiddo said:
im sure it influences his decisions somewhat - we're in an awkward position, we have to challenge seriously for the CL places whilst trying to integrate a lot of new players -

come the end of the season if we're sitting in 4th it will have been deemed as a successful season for AVB (and Spurs), should we finish 5th it won't, regardless of how many times we stick the ball in the net or how stylish we looked at our best
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I agree 100% and the effect of bedding in new players should not be overlooked.

I've felt since the close of the window that our aim should be to remain within touching distance until Christmas. If we can do that, we should be in a really good position to push on and take advantage of our excellent squad depth in the second half of the season.
 
Eriktheviking said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
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Should we go all out attack, even though we know that it decreases the chance of us winning trophies?
 
Eriktheviking said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
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i agree with the sentiments of that quote, i really do - i want us to play winning/attractive/entertaining football - but i don't think you can get all of that in one go - you need to build up to it, which id like to think is what we're doing.
 
milo said:
Should we go all out attack, even though we know that it decreases the chance of us winning trophies?
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Nothing of the sort, you are taking it to extremes. It is possible, you know, to win stuff playing decent football.

We were shocking tonight an could easily have lost. We are so negative its criminal with the players we have.

What AVB does is akin to driving a Austin Martin 50mph down the motorway. Yeah you will get there in the end but where is the fun in that? You can do the same with a £1k boring passat
 
Eriktheviking said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
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Going out and beating the other lot and doing things in style are not always doable at the same time though.
 
Eriktheviking said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
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I'd argue that the great fallacy of the game is thinking that in this day and age it is so easy to go out there and 'beat the other lot' just like that. Yeah, we could go out to the pitch, pour forward, quick passing and we'd score a fair few goals and we'd win a lot of games.

But in this day and age, every other top team (arguably 7 of the PL) are coached so well that they would realise we are pretty one dimensional and pick us off fairly easily. They will adapt to game situations and they will play with cleverness. They will also maintain themselves over the course of a season and not be so susceptible to dips in form and confidence, because they have a system to fall back on. Not that we also won't suffer the game, but I'd argue not on such a grand scale.

I love that Blanchflower quote and all, but what AVB is doing is having us play like a top club would have their team play. It is coaching for consistency, and for control. It may not always be pretty, but most of the time we will get the 1-0 or 2-0 which not only gets us the points, but puts us in good positions for future games as we haven't exerted ourselves too much. That said, plenty of times if we are looking for the early first goal, or we are picking off sides who are coming at us out of desperation, we will play excellent, exciting football.

People just seem to be a bit annoyed that when we get to the 2-0 stage we are comfortable with that rather than destroying teams when really there simply isn't any need. At that point it can look slow but it's serving us well. There's always a chance a defender makes a mistake in that system alongside the chance we throw ourselves forward for a third and get picked off. But I'd argue the chances of conceding against a team that desperately needs a goal to get back in the game if we throw ourselves forward is of a much higher percentage than one of our defenders (who are all comfortable on the ball) making a mistake that leads directly to a goal in a game that is slow in tempo because we've made it that way.
 
billyiddo said:
i agree with the sentiments of that quote, i really do - i want us to play winning/attractive/entertaining football - but i don't think you can get all of that in one go - you need to build up to it, which id like to think is what we're doing.
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I echo your thoughts but i have seen nothing that leads me to think he is building up. You would think that against the weaker sides we play we would go for it a bit more and play with more fluidity, but we dont. A boring 2-0 will always do. Its always a 'that will do' performance .

I feel sorry for you guys spending thousands watching it live.
 
Before AVB was appointed there was much talk of needing a manager who would make the team play beyond it's true level. E.g. Harry could make a team play to normal level and have them look good doing it, and some managers just sucked, but some managers can take a team of comparatively lesser players and make them over-perform through good team orientated coaching. This is what we are seeing now.
 
Eriktheviking said:
"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It's about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out and beating the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom." Danny Blanchflower
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I respect what the greats did, but that was all way before my time. I'm 29, even Hoddle (as a player) is before my time.

For fans around my age, the abiding memories are of Ossie's reign and "entertaining" defeats against the likes of Notts County, or Gross/Graham/Pleat etc. etc. Years of dross, getting f**king hammered by our rivals. There was no entertainment in being a team who was everyone's b1tch.

I like the fact that we are pretty tough now, that we don't let in many goals and that we actually win games away from home. We can compete, we might even win things! I don't want to finish 15th and hear people welling up over Hoddle, Blanchflower etc. I want us to win trophies, win the league and beat our rivals.

I have been fed a steady diet of failure through the 90's and 2000's. Now, it looks like we are getting our act together and I am delighted by this. The great fallacy is that some of our fans think Spurs and football means the same thing to everyone. It doesn't. I don't support Spurs because of Danny Blanchflower or Hoddle. I support Spurs because my dad brainwashed me into it :lol:. He can fondly remember the 80's teams, but I can't. Watching us get beaten up by all and sundry was no fun, especially when the Goons have been so good over the same period. Win please!
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Before AVB was appointed there was much talk of needing a manager who would make the team play beyond it's true level. E.g. Harry could make a team play to normal level and have them look good doing it, and some managers just sucked, but some managers can take a team of comparatively lesser players and make them over-perform through good team orientated coaching. This is what we are seeing now.
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This team is under performing, if anything.
 
Eriktheviking said:
Nothing of the sort, you are taking it to extremes. It is possible, you know, to win stuff playing decent football.

We were shocking tonight an could easily have lost. We are so negative its criminal with the players we have.

What AVB does is akin to driving a Austin Martin 50mph down the motorway. Yeah you will get there in the end but where is the fun in that? You can do the same with a £1k boring passat
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I'm too young to have seen Blanchflower play but I doubt that every game he played in was played with style. I also think that you have to acknowledge that it is a quote of its time and that it is a lot harder to play like that and be successful now, and that we are a team in transition and trying to bed in a lot of new players at the moment.
 
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