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Franco Baldini

Gutter Boy said:
Aren't there something like 80,000 players on Football Manager? You'd expect our database to be at least as extensive as that surely?

If our 2 Brazilian scouts left and weren't replaced in 2008, Baldini's not still going to be able to suck up intelligence from Roma's Brazilian scouts, so we have a blind spot there. Baldini might know the national team and U21s for most countries, but not 16 YOs in Princesa do Solimoes' academy.
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I wouldn't surprise me if there were that many players in the football manager database, although I have never played it so do not know for sure.

But no I don't think it is necessary to have a database as extensive as that. After all a vast majority of those players will be rubbish.

Much of a DoF's role is about using a network of agents and scouts (of which there are a number who work freelance).

At the point at which Baldini left Roma I wouldn't have expected him (or anyone) to have the exact details of every player in the World in their head. However I would expect a decent DoF to be able to remember (say) 100 of the best prospects that their previous club has been doing more detailed scouting on.

I think you over complicate the difficulty in establishing a scouting network these days. Remember how many people there are out there trying to make money from moving players into the top paying leagues.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I wouldn't surprise me if there were that many players in the football manager database, although I have never played it so do not know for sure.

But no I don't think it is necessary to have a database as extensive as that. After all a vast majority of those players will be rubbish.

Much of a DoF's role is about using a network of agents and scouts (of which there are a number who work freelance).

At the point at which Baldini left Roma I wouldn't have expected him (or anyone) to have the exact details of every player in the World in their head. However I would expect a decent DoF to be able to remember (say) 100 of the best prospects that their previous club has been doing more detailed scouting on.

I think you over complicate the difficulty in establishing a scouting network these days. Remember how many people there are out there trying to make money from moving players into the top paying leagues.
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Does that simplify things or complicate things? A large amount of biased, inconsistent, unreliable data does not simplify a decision making process imo.
 
galeforce said:
at some point Jose, or Wenger, or Moyes or someone has been sat in front of his laptop thinking "bloody hell, it's harder than the real thing" :D
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I would hope/think they would have better things to do then play games on a abacus. Saying that it might be the only way Moyes could win anything. :)
 
braineclipse said:
Presumably you would also rather take a well scouted Bale, Modric or Berbatov over an agent contacted Robbie Keane returning from Liverpool? See, we can all pick individual outliers if that's what you want...

And remember too that part of what GB is saying is that perhaps Paulinho wasn't particularly well scouted because of the lack of a scouting network in the period leading up to us signing him.
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Ouch, hurts to get a quick jib in. But mabye this is the point, there should be room for both. We need the scouting network, but shouldn't sniff at the agents either. They are a neccesary evil, and every now and then you get the opertunity to sign som real talent on the cheap thanks to their contact.
 
NorwegianSpursFan said:
Ouch, hurts to get a quick jib in. But mabye this is the point, there should be room for both. We need the scouting network, but shouldn't sniff at the agents either. They are a neccesary evil, and every now and then you get the opertunity to sign som real talent on the cheap thanks to their contact.
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We didn't sign VdV juts on the back of his agent wanting us too. Which is kinda the point... Of course he was a big enough name that everyone (except Ekotto) knew about him already. But if an agent approaches us about a player, which probably happens all the time, that in itself is not great information. Having a good scouting network with decent information available about a wide range of players puts us in a better position to take advantage of situations that can be "exploited".

I don't think anyone is saying that we should not ever listen to agents or approaches from clubs/players about available talent...?
 
Yermiyahu said:
Is he still at the club? What does he do all day??
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Assemble and lead our new scouting team? He has recruited 4 new people to work under him since Christmas, as he rebuilds the department that was disbanded when Comolli left.

He's also already signed some guy called Wimmer this summer, which isn't bad work as the window isn't even open yet
 
Gutter Boy said:
Assemble and lead our new scouting team? He has recruited 4 new people to work under him since Christmas, as he rebuilds the department that was disbanded when Comolli left.

He's also already signed some guy called Wimmer this summer, which isn't bad work as the window isn't even open yet
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Why can't you just let him have his rant in peace?
 
I was more amused by the fact that someone would think the info would be out there in a public place, like he'd put it on Twitter or something "out in Rome doing a deal for Totti, hope Madrid don't realise he's available and nick him off us #justsaying".
 
galeforce said:
I was more amused by the fact that someone would think the info would be out there in a public place, like he'd put it on Twitter or something "out in Rome doing a deal for Totti, hope Madrid don't realise he's available and nick him off us #justsaying".
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You suspect he'll be at the U21s tournament, but I doubt the media would bother picking him out in the crowd
 
The DOF role is much larger than just transfers - you are talking about a head of department of which there are 3 or so at tottenham of a £500mil - £1Bil business.

We will never know who mis-spent the bale money however i dont remember many people who would know better saying we had squandered it at the time.
I wouldnt want him to go this year if we can help it, we always lack continuity, for better or worse we have to allow things to transition each time rather than this constant need for blame and sackings.

Mitchell may be far far better than baldini at scouting but would he really want a job where he takes on at a guess, overview of academy, the state of the pitch, organisation of friendlies in sydney.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
The DOF role is much larger than just transfers - you are talking about a head of department of which there are 3 or so at tottenham of a £500mil - £1Bil business.

We will never know who mis-spent the bale money however i dont remember many people who would know better saying we had squandered it at the time.
I wouldnt want him to go this year if we can help it, we always lack continuity, for better or worse we have to allow things to transition each time rather than this constant need for blame and sackings.

Mitchell may be far far better than baldini at scouting but would he really want a job where he takes on at a guess, overview of academy, the state of the pitch, organisation of friendlies in sydney.
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I'm not so sure we mis-spent the Bale money. From a finance point of view an ambition could have been to retain asset value without incurring tax on profits. If Soldado and Paulinho have depreciated, Eriksen and Chadli have gone up in value. I still don't think we'd get far off the £80m back if we sold all seven tomorrow.

It's important to point out that scouting is only one part of Baldini's portfolio - coaching, academy, secretariat and medical are the other departments that come under the DoF's remit. Indirectly Baldini is responsible for appointing Poch, ensuring academy pathways to the first team squad, the new contracts for Lloris, Kane and Mason, and us having no injuries last season
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
The DOF role is much larger than just transfers - you are talking about a head of department of which there are 3 or so at tottenham of a £500mil - £1Bil business.

We will never know who mis-spent the bale money however i dont remember many people who would know better saying we had squandered it at the time.
I wouldnt want him to go this year if we can help it, we always lack continuity, for better or worse we have to allow things to transition each time rather than this constant need for blame and sackings.

Mitchell may be far far better than baldini at scouting but would he really want a job where he takes on at a guess, overview of academy, the state of the pitch, organisation of friendlies in sydney.
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Well its that fans favourite word " hindsight", its so simple for some fans to say we wasted the money ( followed by I knew we had), when in truth the vast majority were happy with the signings at the time.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I'm not so sure we mis-spent the Bale money. From a finance point of view an ambition could have been to retain asset value without incurring tax on profits. If Soldado and Paulinho have depreciated, Eriksen and Chadli have gone up in value. I still don't think we'd get far off the £80m back if we sold all seven tomorrow.

It's important to point out that scouting is only one part of Baldini's portfolio - coaching, academy, secretariat and medical are the other departments that come under the DoF's remit. Indirectly Baldini is responsible for appointing Poch, ensuring academy pathways to the first team squad, the new contracts for Lloris, Kane and Mason, and us having no injuries last season
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Paulinho 10mil
Soldado 8mil
Eriksen 18mil
Chadli 12mil
Chiriches 6mil
Capoue 8mil
Lamela 17mil

Total 79mil so your probably right, its all guesswork though, Baldini may be doing a amazing job or an awful job, we can only guess. However the money was mis-spent in that all the players purchased were to strengthen the first team, and that wasnt achieved.
 
imcallingbullsh*t said:
Paulinho 10mil
Soldado 8mil
Eriksen 18mil
Chadli 12mil
Chiriches 6mil
Capoue 8mil
Lamela 17mil

Total 79mil so your probably right, its all guesswork though, Baldini may be doing a amazing job or an awful job, we can only guess. However the money was mis-spent in that all the players purchased were to strengthen the first team, and that wasnt achieved.
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Sure people will disagree but I think these values are reAsonable other than lamella

But we also have other players who have gone up in value who have come through the ranks too
 
My guess would be:
Paulinho 8-10 mill
Eriksen 20-25 mill
Soldado 7-10 mill
Chadli 12-15 mill
Chiriches 5 mill
Capoue 5 mill
Lamela 17-20 mill
A total of 74-90 mill, and I don't think I'm too optimistic.
 
SpursNorway said:
My guess would be:
Paulinho 8-10 mill
Eriksen 20-25 mill
Soldado 7-10 mill
Chadli 12-15 mill
Chiriches 5 mill
Capoue 5 mill
Lamela 17-20 mill
A total of 74-90 mill, and I don't think I'm too optimistic.
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I think the problem with many of the above (those that have failed here) is that the wages that they will be earning at Spurs will be higher than all but other English clubs or the real top European clubs can pay. The top European clubs won't want our failed players as they are not good enough to play for those real top clubs and other English clubs won't want them because the player has already failed in England.

Soldado is a good example, he is 30 years old, probably on £50k to £60k a week and has just had 2 seasons in a row of abject failure. What team is going to put together a 20 odd million £ package to sign him with those sorts of parameters? I doubt we'll do any better than finding a club to do any more than pay us a token fee and pay all of his wages for the last couple of seasons of his contract (did he sign a 4 or 5 year deal with us?). Levy may even prefer to just loan him out until his contract is up to avoid showing a big paper loss on his transfer (I assume Soldado signed a 4 year deal at Spurs and he therefore still has a book value of £13 million).
 
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