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Formula One on Sky

dingdongo said:
I am praying its not just a Red Bull and Merc contest this season. F1 could really do with a mix up.
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a lot of belief Ferrari could have a better car this year. Hopefully Mclaren retains the quality from previous years too.

But on that note of 'Red Bull vs Mercedes' - yes they have the two best cars no doubt, but the difference between Lewis and Max and their partners (Bottas last year for Mercedes and Checo at RB) is remarkable. They push those cars way into the stratosphere, if you had drivers like Bottas and Checo levels, you wouldn't be seeing the dominance of Red Bull and Mercedes at all.
 
Diamond Lights said:
a lot of belief Ferrari could have a better car this year. Hopefully Mclaren retains the quality from previous years too.

But on that note of 'Red Bull vs Mercedes' - yes they have the two best cars no doubt, but the difference between Lewis and Max and their partners (Bottas last year for Mercedes and Checo at RB) is remarkable. They push those cars way into the stratosphere, if you had drivers like Bottas and Checo levels, you wouldn't be seeing the dominance of Red Bull and Mercedes at all.
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Checo is one of those drivers I'd bet the bank on when something happens - weather changes, safety car, etc. But in a normal point to point race he's so far off the pace he looks awful.
 
Baleforce said:
close the pit lane when the risk of punctures from debris on the track is highest?

I think people would rather see real racing than close racing
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I'm with you on that.
If it's artificially close then it's not racing; might as well just award point based on lap speed for a one lap run.
 
One episode down in Drive to Survive S4.

Toto Wolff really does live rent free in Horner's head. Great show but going to be a struggle listening to Whinger Spice moaning throughout.

Also makes it sound like Red Bull some plucky Alpine like underdogs.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
 
Diamond Lights said:
One episode down in Drive to Survive S4.

Toto Wolff really does live rent free in Horner's head. Great show but going to be a struggle listening to Whinger Spice moaning throughout.

Also makes it sound like Red Bull some plucky Alpine like underdogs.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
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I can't watch it, I hate the false narrative those shows try and push.

Red Bull Racing have been in F1 for 5 seasons more than this iteration of Mercedes.

They also took over an established platform and engine partnership that was previously Stewart/Jaguar.

Mercedes took over Brawn which also came from the established Honda team, but they didn't get the full Honda platform and the deal happened late, so they missed out on a development cycle.

Ross Brawn's comments on the Mercedes side pods are interesting, as he was running Brawn GP for that single season, and they had a monster car mainly because of a radical diffuser design.
 
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Baleforce said:
I can't watch it, I hate the false narrative those shows try and push.

Red Bull Racing have been in F1 for 5 seasons more than this iteration of Mercedes.

They also took over an established platform and engine partnership that was previously Stewart/Jaguar.

Mercedes took over Brawn which also came from the established Honda team, but they didn't get the full Honda platform and the deal happened late, so they missed out on a development cycle.

Ross Brawn's comments on the Mercedes side pods are interesting as he was running Brawn GP for that single season and they had a monster car mainly because of a radical diffuser design.
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I barely looked at the cars this season, but I saw how the Mercedes were pogoing down the straights! Can't be good. The venturi effect sucks them down, then releases, leaving the cars bouncing up and down! With all the money it is amazing they somehow missed this. Especially as it was an issue in ground effect cars in the 90s? Must be impossible to drive. I had a car that 'kangerooed' at low speeds but that was a gearbox thing :)

Amazing how airflow and different pressures create lift or downforce. How plans actually fly etc. I never had a physics or science education so its all magic to me.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I barely looked at the cars this season, but I saw how the Mercedes were pogoing down the straights! Can't be good. The venturi effect sucks them down, then releases, leaving the cars bouncing up and down! With all the money it is amazing they somehow missed this. Especially as it was an issue in ground effect cars in the 90s? Must be impossible to drive. I had a car that 'kangerooed' at low speeds but that was a gearbox thing :)

Amazing how airflow and different pressures create lift or downforce. How plans actually fly etc. I never had a physics or science education so its all magic to me.
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I think Mercedes are hiding the true performance of that car, like you say, that's too obvious an issue for them to have made a mistake over.

Although Hamilton does seem genuinely concerned.
 
Baleforce said:
I think Mercedes are hiding the true performance of that car, like you say, that's too obvious an issue for them to have made a mistake over.

Although Hamilton does seem genuinely concerned.
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I think they probably just messed up. Computer simulations are never completely right. I do wonder if some teams just covertly drive and test the cars on tarmac. How would anyone know?
 
some brilliant minds at Mercedes, am sure they can figure it out. But yes, Red Bull looks a step ahead this year, as it did last year too. I'd love for Ferrari to be in the mix but it's been so long you don't want another false dawn with them.
 
Diamond Lights said:
One episode down in Drive to Survive S4.

Toto Wolff really does live rent free in Horner's head. Great show but going to be a struggle listening to Whinger Spice moaning throughout.

Also makes it sound like Red Bull some plucky Alpine like underdogs.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk
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Haha, only seen the first episode of season 4 myself - Horner does like to bitch and moan about Mercedes, doesn't he. :p
 
SpurMeUp said:
I barely looked at the cars this season, but I saw how the Mercedes were pogoing down the straights! Can't be good. The venturi effect sucks them down, then releases, leaving the cars bouncing up and down! With all the money it is amazing they somehow missed this. Especially as it was an issue in ground effect cars in the 90s? Must be impossible to drive. I had a car that 'kangerooed' at low speeds but that was a gearbox thing :)

Amazing how airflow and different pressures create lift or downforce. How plans actually fly etc. I never had a physics or science education so its all magic to me.
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Baleforce said:
I think Mercedes are hiding the true performance of that car, like you say, that's too obvious an issue for them to have made a mistake over.

Although Hamilton does seem genuinely concerned.
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Every team was expecting some degree of porpoising, as it is very difficult to simulate. Even in wind tunnels it's difficult to find out if there are issues with porpoising, as the wind tunnel surface is completely flat, and the suspension is not moving.

I also think Mercedes are sandbagging their performance somewhat, but I still think they are a bit behind Red Bull and Ferrari. After those 3 teams, it looks pretty even, with Williams, unfortunately, looking to be a back marker. Even Haas looks to be in better shape than Williams.
 
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Why are even Williams and Haas in it? They're like the Norwich and Burnley of F1 - aren't they just spending a ton of money to ultimately lose, or do they actually regain some of the money spent just by taking part?
 
Daisuk said:
Why are even Williams and Haas in it? They're like the Norwich and Burnley of F1 - aren't they just spending a ton of money to ultimately lose, or do they actually regain some of the money spent just by taking part?
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for fun ultimately, but they will break even with sponsorship money and whatever prize money they do pick up

FIA want the grid to be a certain size too so there are incentives there, smaller teams also have agreements/understandings with bigger teams for certain components and driver development
 
Baleforce said:
for fun ultimately, but they will break even with sponsorship money and whatever prize money they do pick up

FIA want the grid to be a certain size too so there are incentives there, smaller teams also have agreements/understandings with bigger teams for certain components and driver development
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Ok, cheers. Would be more interesting if all drivers could use the same car, but would take a lot of the money out of the sport, I suppose.
 
Daisuk said:
Ok, cheers. Would be more interesting if all drivers could use the same car, but would take a lot of the money out of the sport, I suppose.
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Indycar has a fixed chassis design which all teams use. It probably wouldn't make too much difference to the sponsorship coming into F1.

I think F1 was at its best when teams had more freedom, I'm all for mandatory safety improvements, but let them innovate, it's supposed to be the pinnacle of motoring.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Every team was expecting some degree of poupoising, as it is very difficult to simulate. Even in wind tunnels it's difficult to find out if there are issues with pourpoising, as the wind tunnel surface is completely flat, and the suspension is not moving.

I also think Mercedes are sandbagging their performance somewhat, but I still think they are a bit behind Red Bull and Ferrari. After those 3 teams, it looks pretty even, with Williams, unfortunately, looking to be a back marker. Even Haas looks to be in better shape than Williams.
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With the many many millions at their behest, you'd think they'd rough up the surface and simulate a road! It just shows that simulators are amazing but limited. Hamilton I know is not one to use the simulator overly. Becuase it is just software. Reality is always going to be a little different. Make no mistake Mercades did not want the car bobbing up and down. It is an oversight. They will be able to manage it, and find a way around it, but it is compromising their design.
 
Daisuk said:
Ok, cheers. Would be more interesting if all drivers could use the same car, but would take a lot of the money out of the sport, I suppose.
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There are other motor sport classes for that. F1 is largely about innovation, with some homogeneous parts.
 
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