Maltese Falcon
Niko Kranjcar
Yet players like Konoplyanka and Yarmolenko seemingly do not interest us... Scratching my head there...
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
football with "pace" - do we ?
- Thread starter metalgear
- Start date
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
We have pace: our first-choice FBs, for example (Walker and Rose) are among the quickest in the world, never mind the league. We don't have pace in the right areas, however: crucially, we don't have pace in the two inside-forward positions we play with.
The whole principle of Poch's quick transitions revolves around the ball being fed up top quickly, with direct passes into either the feet of the CF or into space for the inside forwards to chase. In the former scenario, the CF (who has to be a strong, aerially proficient type, to hold on to the ball when fed such direct passes) then drops deep, turns, and looks to play a pass either to a creative player next to him or into the space behind the FBs/CBs for the onrushing inside forward(s) to run on to. In the latter, the passes reach the inside forwards themselves, who then burst diagonally into the box and look to either shoot or square it for either the other inside forward or the big CF, arriving from deep.
We saw this in Poch's final season at Southampton, with Jay Rodriguez notching up 17 goals in 39 appearances from a wide forward position and Lambert playing the role of the big CF to perfection. The pace of the FBs (Shaw and Clyne) didn't really matter in Poch's system, because they only used that pace offensively when the team was passing around the opponent's half trying to find an angle for a through ball (as we generally do against most teams now), which implies a slow-down in play and the failure of the initial 'release' ball to either the inside forwards or the CF. The same situation affects us now.
It's been evident for the entirety of his tenure so far that we lack the pacy inside forwards crucial to his style of play: the unexpected success of Chadli and Lamela's semi-undroppable status (caused by his fee, no doubt) forced him to persevere with those two even as they clearly lacked the pace or incision necessary for his preferred style of play. That still led to memorable sequences of 'fast' football (Arsenal and Chelsea at home, for example), where the same incisive passes into the feet of the CF or into space for the wing forwards were played from higher up the field (from the halfway line, given our opponents' determination to sit back on the edge of their box in both instances), which allowed the inside forwards to run onto through balls in tight spaces and with little room for a recovery by the pacier defenders (who were, after all, defending close to their box): there, their pace didn't really matter, and as a result we pegged both teams back with the ferocity of our forward play. However, to have a really effective 'fast' style of play from all positions on the field (i.e, whether the initial pass is played from deep or from closer to the halfway line) will require serious pace in the inside forward positions.
I suspect that we're looking to acquire an inside forward who can play on the left (ideally Berahino), and that this forward will not rotate with Kane up front but will rather start regularly on the left, playing the 'Rodriguez' role: this will then free Chadli up to be the 'big' rotation CF that we need to provide back-up for Kane, and will allow Lamela to continue trying to play the 'Lallana' role (i.e, a moderately fast inside-forward with an eye for a pass) with the threat of perhaps another wing forward ( perhaps N'jie) behind him, ready to take his place and thus cement a 'traditional' Poch offensive formation (two pacy, direct inside forwards, one AM, one big CF) if he doesn't deliver. Similarly, Pritchard will be the backup on the left, ready to play the 'Lallana' role from the left (with N'Jie taking up the 'pacy inside forward' role on the right) if Berahino doesn't deliver.
The one problem I can see with this system is the lack of real playmakers if Lamela and Pritch don't deliver (only Eriksen/the AM (Mason, Pritch, whoever), really), which necessitates buying a DM for the pivot who can also start play from deep and play intricate passes up front: if Bender is this man, then go for him by all means, but if we're left without this player come the end of the window, then we're still not going to be quite complete, really.
The whole principle of Poch's quick transitions revolves around the ball being fed up top quickly, with direct passes into either the feet of the CF or into space for the inside forwards to chase. In the former scenario, the CF (who has to be a strong, aerially proficient type, to hold on to the ball when fed such direct passes) then drops deep, turns, and looks to play a pass either to a creative player next to him or into the space behind the FBs/CBs for the onrushing inside forward(s) to run on to. In the latter, the passes reach the inside forwards themselves, who then burst diagonally into the box and look to either shoot or square it for either the other inside forward or the big CF, arriving from deep.
We saw this in Poch's final season at Southampton, with Jay Rodriguez notching up 17 goals in 39 appearances from a wide forward position and Lambert playing the role of the big CF to perfection. The pace of the FBs (Shaw and Clyne) didn't really matter in Poch's system, because they only used that pace offensively when the team was passing around the opponent's half trying to find an angle for a through ball (as we generally do against most teams now), which implies a slow-down in play and the failure of the initial 'release' ball to either the inside forwards or the CF. The same situation affects us now.
It's been evident for the entirety of his tenure so far that we lack the pacy inside forwards crucial to his style of play: the unexpected success of Chadli and Lamela's semi-undroppable status (caused by his fee, no doubt) forced him to persevere with those two even as they clearly lacked the pace or incision necessary for his preferred style of play. That still led to memorable sequences of 'fast' football (Arsenal and Chelsea at home, for example), where the same incisive passes into the feet of the CF or into space for the wing forwards were played from higher up the field (from the halfway line, given our opponents' determination to sit back on the edge of their box in both instances), which allowed the inside forwards to run onto through balls in tight spaces and with little room for a recovery by the pacier defenders (who were, after all, defending close to their box): there, their pace didn't really matter, and as a result we pegged both teams back with the ferocity of our forward play. However, to have a really effective 'fast' style of play from all positions on the field (i.e, whether the initial pass is played from deep or from closer to the halfway line) will require serious pace in the inside forward positions.
I suspect that we're looking to acquire an inside forward who can play on the left (ideally Berahino), and that this forward will not rotate with Kane up front but will rather start regularly on the left, playing the 'Rodriguez' role: this will then free Chadli up to be the 'big' rotation CF that we need to provide back-up for Kane, and will allow Lamela to continue trying to play the 'Lallana' role (i.e, a moderately fast inside-forward with an eye for a pass) with the threat of perhaps another wing forward ( perhaps N'jie) behind him, ready to take his place and thus cement a 'traditional' Poch offensive formation (two pacy, direct inside forwards, one AM, one big CF) if he doesn't deliver. Similarly, Pritchard will be the backup on the left, ready to play the 'Lallana' role from the left (with N'Jie taking up the 'pacy inside forward' role on the right) if Berahino doesn't deliver.
The one problem I can see with this system is the lack of real playmakers if Lamela and Pritch don't deliver (only Eriksen/the AM (Mason, Pritch, whoever), really), which necessitates buying a DM for the pivot who can also start play from deep and play intricate passes up front: if Bender is this man, then go for him by all means, but if we're left without this player come the end of the window, then we're still not going to be quite complete, really.
heinoe
Mark Bowen
I wrote that in AprilAll season? That long, eh?
I wrote that in April
Ha!
Well, that's me well and truly mugged off!
Damn the person who bumped this thread!
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
We have pace out wide with the FBs but never use it. The goal in the Man U game highlights this. Bentaleb had half the pitch to knock the ball into for the FB but chose to play it to feet (pity it was the wrong feet). We ALWAYS do it, it's become easy to anticipate. A ball over the top to run into and use the FBs and Chadlis pace would IMO help
Agree with you. We lack attackers with pace and the ability to beat a man. Not sure why but it makes us easy to play against
I'm hopeful of Pritchard but he's certainly not quick
I
indianspur
Guest
i saw someone else post this but a front three of Kane, Berahino and Njie would transform our attacking play, with Eriksen or Pritchard floating in and around. Speed, guile, goal threat.
................Kane
Berahino...............Njie
..............Eriksen
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
That would change the attacking dynamic massively
Limited players with genuine pace can still be a threat, where as technical players with no extra gears (lamella for example) lack that extra variety
Bullet
Andy Thompson
Note that Rose provides far more width and pace than Davies. If Davies gets the ball on the half way line he drives forwards 10 yards, turns back inside and lays it off. Rose powers forwards 30 yards and screams forwards Kamikaze style, completely different players which affects the team massively.
It might be that Poch likes the option of either more attacking or more defensive, it might be that Poch wishes he had 2 players like Rose. We don't know.
It might be that Poch likes the option of either more attacking or more defensive, it might be that Poch wishes he had 2 players like Rose. We don't know.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Only if they can bring in others around them though. How many quick players have we seen leave defenders in their wake then fire it into row z. Not much point in that.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I personally can't think of many
Lennon beats a man and stands it up
Mane generally beats a man and the falls over
Giggs didn't struggle using his pace
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
But giggs wasn't a limited player with just pace. He could dribble pass and shoot.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Pace isn't useful though at home against a team sitting back? Its more we have players comfortable passing at pace.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Yeah he was class but his pace made a big big difference
I've seen then goal played struggle because they didn't have the pace but I've seen pacey players make it with limited ability
Kyle Walker is a good example
metalgear
Luka Modric
Pace is also about a pacey ball played decisively and placed well enough to give the striker an advantage...we dont have someone who can do that. Arsenal does this pretty well...you see them probing, waiting for that moment...i dont think we train enough in this adpect of the game.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Because other than eriksen we don't have a true play maker type
People say lamella plays like that and he did at Roma big defenders in Italy are much more static IMO
Eriksen isn't a playmaker IMO. His major points are freekicks and long range shots. Most of his attempted through balls never make it past the defenders. If we could get a top class #10 we should go for it, but finding someone we can afford and is willing to come to us is almost impossible really.