thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
In a nutshell. It worked for everyone including AVB.
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Feeling very 'flat' for the new season
- Thread starter Mulletperm
- Start date
In a nutshell. It worked for everyone including AVB.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Even more simplistic than that.
AVB "Hamburg are interested in you. Are you interested?"
VDV "Am I in your first team plans?"
AVB "No"
VDV "Then I am interested in Hamburg"
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
Do you have a direct line to AVB?
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Agreed. The formation change, coupled with being benched on the opening game. It was pretty obvious that VDV was surplus to requirements, and it would have been obvious to the player too. I genuinely believe that if VDV had the choice between being a first choice player at Spurs in the Premiership or playing for Hamburg VDV would have STAYED at Spurs (that said I have no doubt had a team like Utd come knocking he would have wanted to leave us). But why stick around if it's clear you aren't going to feature much?
I don't blame AVB or VDV. VDV is in his prime as a footballer (makes me laugh people are happy we only got £10m for him when he is in his prime and IMHO worth twice that at least - but that poor piece of business isn't AVB's fault either) and wants to play games. AVB has a formation and style of play where VDV doesn't really fit in. Huddlestone and Dawson don't fit in either that is why I believe both will also be ex-Spurs players within the next 12 months.
What annoys me is that people are trying to make out that VDV wanted to leave. I don't believe he wanted to leave, but I believe that once it was clear he wasn't going to be as central as the last two years he didn't mind leaving to join Hamburg. BIG difference.
Was AVB wrong in getting rid of VDV? No. I don't like the decision and I wouldn't have done it personally, but AVB has a vision to what he wants and to make that vision work he has to be ruthless. VDV (along with Hudd, Dawson and probably Parker) is too slow for that high tempo pressing game, and VDV in the Premiership is definitely NOT a midfielder. Nor is he fast enough to close down and harry the defence in a lone striker role. Finally one thing that drove me up the wall with VDV (and I am a fan of his) was his lack of discipline. His dropping too deep too often etc. AVB is all about tactical discipline, not personal flair. If AVB felt that VDV couldn't be disciplined enough to carry out his instructions then once again AVB made the right call selling VDV.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
Nope, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that VDV didn't fit into AVB's plans.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
How do you work that one out? We had two games before he was sold, one where he started and one where he was on the bench.
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
See previous post, and numerous posts BEFORE the season began. But for clarity I'll spell it out again. Premiership. 4-5-1. VDV can't play in midfield or up top on his own. Spurs play 4-5-1 = no place for VDV.
Hootnow
Jermaine Jenas
In your opinion. You have had a tendency in this thread to state your opinion as if it either a) AVB's personal opinion or b) fact.
There is a chance that AVB effectively forced out VDV. Or there is a chance that VDV was receptive to going back to Germany due to family reasons, especially to the club he loves so much and Levy and AVB were more receptive to this deal because of Sigurrdson.
I think the second one is more likely but I do not claim to be portraying facts.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
People say he is a luxury player, but I agree £10m was not good business.
I really worry when we play the scum that we won't have another player as fired up as he used to get when he played against them.
You are wasting your time
I suppose VdV's tweets are also conviniently ignored to fuel his anti-AVB agenda
dan_bu @dan_bu
Van der Vaart: "My son was born here. My wife works in Germany and our nanny is from Hamburg. Practically I'm almost a German."
Kingdawson
Banned
How exactly is it an anti AVB agenda saying he wanted VDV gone?
Kingdawson
Banned
and also Arcspace you're choosing to ignore what AVB said and then criticsing Moonlit for choosing to ignore what VDV says?
Because it firmly lays the 'blame' with him for letting a quality player go - nothing to do with the fact he wanted out himself and Levy creamed off top dollar for a player in his twilight years.
Most likely scenario (to my mind)
- VdV tells Levy he really wants to leave for family reasons
- Levy asks AVB what he thinks (on the promise of making funds available for 're-investment')
- AVB says - would be a loss but family reasons - fair enough
- Levy makes sure we receive top dollar
Yes, AVB might have (reluctantly) approved the deal but he didn't go to Levy and transfer-list VdV or made him redundant in the system (in which he's actually wend and bought the very same but inferior replacements).
Most likely scenario (to my mind)
- VdV tells Levy he really wants to leave for family reasons
- Levy asks AVB what he thinks (on the promise of making funds available for 're-investment')
- AVB says - would be a loss but family reasons - fair enough
- Levy makes sure we receive top dollar
Yes, AVB might have (reluctantly) approved the deal but he didn't go to Levy and transfer-list VdV or made him redundant in the system (in which he's actually wend and bought the very same but inferior replacements).
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Do you honestly believe that if VdV didn't want go back to HSV (for argument's sale) - AVB wouldn't have been able to accommodate him and play him in our current formation considering largerly inferior players (in that position) in the face of Dempsey and Sigurdsson appear to be his very replacement? Even for 1 season?
To me a quality player is just that - and any team/formation can benefit from such units
Kingdawson
Banned
"laying the blame" what are you talking about? a manager doesn't rate a player or thinks he could cope without him then it's his right to let him go irrespective of what the fans think. AVB made a decision and tbh i can see why he made that decision. It's not a negative on AVB that he was willing to let him go at all...in fact personally i feel it's more a positive (the fact that he was willing to let such a top class player leave because he doesn't suit the system he wants to implement).
Kingdawson
Banned
Sure he could have accomodated him being the gifted footballer that he is. It's clear though (i'm basing this on AVB...our managers words) that he was perfectly fine letting him go. I could understand people being sceptical if AVB made these comments AFTER VDV left but when he goes out of his way to tell us that he will decide if VDV leaves and it's his decision then i'll believe the manager.
Have a look at my 'edit' further up
I don't understand how you can keep on claiming that we are playing 4-5-1 - that we have changed our formation from last year - when Sigurdsson and Dempsey have both clearly been playing behind the front-man in a 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1.
Agree - and its entirely consistent with what AVB said in late Jul/early August. Basically he was asked whether he would move to his preferred 4-3-3/4-5-1 formation immediately and he said that, given that it takes time for players to learn new formations and given that we'll be bedding new players in, he'd stick with what the curretn squad know initially - ie the same 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 formation that we player under Harry. However his comment implied that this was only a temporary thing....
...therefore if by say next season we'll be playing his preferred 4-3-3/4-5-1, then by then VdV will be of no use as he isnt suited to that formation. So we're better of selling now before he's another year older (and I am a big Rafa fan by the way)
The Moonlit Knight
Banned
The key fact is simple. VDV made the tweets AFTER signing. VDV is not shy going to the media. If he was the one angling for a move, we'd have known about it long before. Even the Hamburg Chairman said he was surprised that they purchased him because 24 hours before Spurs had said they weren't selling. If VDV had been pushing for the move then he'd have kicked off about it.
Bottom line is to me it's pretty obvious that VDV is delighted to join Hamburg but wouldn't have left Spurs had we wanted to keep him.