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FA Cup or Top 4?

FA Cup OR finishing in the top 4?

  • Win FA Cup (and finish outside of top 4)

    Votes: 9 14.5%

  • Finish in top 4 (and don't win FA Cup)

    Votes: 53 85.5%
  • Total voters
    62
Legohamster said:
Everything’s an agenda :rolleyes:
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Well yeah technically when you're engaging in discussion, everything's tinged with an agenda.

It's just that my agenda is wanting Spurs fans, players, manager and staff to be pulling in the same direction. To be doing so with a sense of optimism, enjoyment and excitement would be an added bonus, wouldn't it? :D

I totally get that disagreements, anger and disappointment are unavoidable when it comes to supporting a football club. To eradicate that is not my contention.

You'd only have to look at some of my OMT posts when I'm watching a game, even I look back on them with regret at times.

I'll just never understand or get behind this ever-growing attitude of entitlement or inciting negativity for the sake of it, particularly days or weeks after a disappointment.

This is heightened by the fact that things are generally going so well for us and there's so much to look forward to.

Life is short, wallowing in pessimism for weeks and months rarely achieves anything. Why not try and enjoy the ride?
 
Hootnow said:
I think for me now, the aims of this season:

-Finish in the top 4
-Try to reach at least the QF of the CL (though Dortmund are a level above most teams in the PL and so wouldn't be upset if we got knocked out without Kane, Dele etc
-Get into the new stadium
-Try to give youth a bit more of an opportunity, if possible
-Be working from now to be shifting the likes of GKN, Llorente, Janssen, probably Wanyama unfortunately in the summer early so we can work on good incomings, who have the time to work in Poch's pre-season
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They are exactly our targets this season. And due to a good old injury crisis, probably why Poch picked the team he did and appeared to not think it's a big thing getting knocked out of the fact cup.

That's where this debate started, i struggle to see why people are blind to that plan. We have priorities dictated by the plan. Any other thinking is going off plan and potentially a risk.
 
glorygloryeze said:
Lolz, no you attack any poster that offers any kind of analysis/viewpoint/discussion point re Spurs that is not "everything is awesome".
Yes, forum police.

As i say, put me on ignore if what i ever discuss is too horrendous for you.
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I didn't see whom you were responding to, and I was confused. Then I realized it was @nayenezgani.

Yep, definitely accurate. Friendly tip - the guy will outright lie about what you said as well, just to further whatever point he's trying to make. Best leave it alone, mate. Not worth it.
 
spitshine said:
There’s no guarantee that regular CL qualification equates to winning trophies.
What there is and history tell us is that a club to win the big prizes, win the smaller ones first.

A natural progression like Man U under sir Alex where he won the fa cup, charity shield, cup winners cup iirc then league champions.
This is how a squad grows in confidence start winning a few cups.

We’ve missed this natural progression and to go from top 6 to premier league champions as a first trophy is rare. Leicester being the obvious exception.
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That was before there was a separate competition that only 4 clubs got into that was worth between £50 and £100 million.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I didn't see whom you were responding to, and I was confused. Then I realized it was @nayenezgani.

Yep, definitely accurate. Friendly tip - the guy will outright lie about what you said as well, just to further whatever point he's trying to make. Best leave it alone, mate. Not worth it.
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I'm still waiting for you to explain this glass ceiling that we have apparently hit?
 
billyiddo said:
If Liverpool win the league this season they too will have done so without first winning a smaller trophy - so that's potentially 2 teams to have won the league as their first trophy (could also count City as prior to the season they won their first title they had won nothing as a team - they won the LC the same season but you'd struggle to convince me that played any part in their title win)

Whereas all of the regular CL sides (say 5 or more appearences) over the length of the PL have seen a healthy return of trophies - so of the two circumstances one is more absoloute than the other.

Interestingly Leeds and Saudi Sportswashing Machine both had a small run of CL appearances at different times in the PL era and neither managed to win trophies either - perhaps the key lays somewhere in the difference between having a brief period at the top and having a more sustained period? Where we are now is similar to where LU and NU were before they slipped away and plummeted, only that's not likely to happen to us thanks to the self sustained growth we have achieved over the last decade or so and the reinvestment of funds in to infastructure - as a result of this approach we'll likely continue to be in and around the top 4 for a good long while to come, which should in turn increase our chances of winning trophies in a way neither of the aforementioned clubs were able.

Smaller trophies are 'easier' to win than the bigger ones so most sides that go on to win the league or CL will get the opportunity to pick up a cup or two beforehand.
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Taking the first point of Liverpool if were to win this would buck the historical trend that is not the norm.

I’m not sure we can include city for the reason they were a few years into this massive cash injection and gives them the advantage or missing a step.
The fact we are going to increase our match day income will still be no where near Emirates Marketing Project levels of cash injection. Also winning their first trophy a couple of months before could still be seen to assist in the league campaign.

Leeds and Saudi Sportswashing Machine also had less of a challenge from other clubs, in an era where foreign ownership wasn’t as prevalent to the extent we see with Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project.
But even then as you say cl campaigns by both didn’t result in winning the bigger trophies.

We are self sufficient and levy is shrewd enough not to take risks like LU. But considering the strength of our rivals, the only challenge I see us competing in is the top 4 but never a league title. Liverpool and Man U also have the financial muscle.
We couldn’t pay Sanchez 500k a week even with a new stadium.
Stability in the top 4 and league/fa cups is our ceiling.
 
Hootnow said:
This is certainly true. I'm loving what we are doing at the moment. I love the work Poch has done, I love most of the work Levy has done. I love the upgrades to infrastructure, I love the new stadium and can't wait to get in.

I'm nowhere near as emotionally attached to football as I used to be (a consequence of being older and even your kids growing up) so I don't sit there devastated when we lose and knee jerking all over the place.

I am very much enjoying what is going on at the moment.

However, I don't think that is mutually exclusive to wanting more and expecting a bit more from our squad (and I don't mean just from this last week but in general).

Some fans seem to be under the impression that our progress can basically only be linear, that while we may not be winning trophies now, it is a logical next step in our progression. But...it isn't necessarily. Leverkusen lost 3 trophies in the space of a couple of weeks and have won nothing since. Leeds, Saudi Sportswashing Machine spent a few seasons as CL regulars but have both dropped away. If in 5 years time, regardless of league performance, we still haven't won any trophies with this group of players, I will still look back at this period of time fondly, having loved some of the moments they gave us in the league, in Europe. But, to be completely frank, I will also look back at it with tinges of lost opportunity. Because I think this group of players is/was talented enough to win a trophy and go deep in Europe. Did I love our performance at the camp nou? Yes. You know what would be even better? Reaching the CL semi final, having knocked out Barcelona in a 2 legged tie in the QF (ie Roma). Did I love our league consistency? Yes. Would I have given up 1 or even 2 seasons out of the top 4 to have won 1 or 2 league titles in this 4 year period? Yep I would have done tbh. Etc.

I just hope I don't have to look back with this mixture of pride and happiness, mixed in with tinges of regret.
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You are on form today mate, another very good post.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I'm still waiting for you to explain this glass ceiling that we have apparently hit?
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Sorry mate, missed this.

See Arsenal? See the strategy they employed when building their stadium? a
See their 'meme years' when they had a squad of 20 raw youngsters and five 33 year old men, and when their only aim was the Top Four trophy which they somehow miraculously won every year thanks to Wenger's management skills?

For Arsenal, see Spurs. We're following the exact model they did, down to a tee, from squad building to relying on the brilliance of our manager to see us through to the vaunted Top Four trophy that all players an fans know and crave.

And I think we will end in the same way, given that similarity. You're supposed to learn from their failings, not emulate them.

Thst's the glass ceiling that ENIC hsve hit - with zero funding, out of all winnable competitions and approaching a record 365 days without a single transfer, I think it's fair to say.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Sorry mate, missed this.

See Arsenal? See the strategy they employed when building their stadium? a
See their 'meme years' when they had a squad of 20 raw youngsters and five 33 year old men, and when their only aim was the Top Four trophy which they somehow miraculously won every year thanks to Wenger's management skills?

For Arsenal, see Spurs. We're following the exact model they did, down to a tee, from squad building to relying on the brilliance of our manager to see us through to the vaunted Top Four trophy that all players an fans know and crave.

And I think we will end in the same way, given that similarity. You're supposed to learn from their failings, not emulate them.

Thst's the glass ceiling that ENIC hsve hit - with zero funding, out of all winnable competitions and approaching a record 365 days without a single transfer, I think it's fair to say.
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I see. So in which year did we hit that glass ceiling? Was it this year?

Also forgive me if I am mistaken but haven't Arsenal won 3 of the last 5 FA Cup competitions?
 
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Finney Is Back said:
I see. So in which year did we hit that glass ceiling? Was it this year?

Also forgive me if I am mistaken but haven't Arsenal won 3 of the last 5 FA Cup competitions?
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Good question - thinking about it, I would probably trace it back to 2011/2012. At the critical moment, with the team in 3rd playing confident, fluid football and with only a minor push required in the January window to push on for the rest of the season, we signed 300-year old Ryan Nelsen and Louis Saha on free transfers.

We finished 4th, but were denied a CL spot, and the rest is history. Harry was sacked, Modric left, VdV left, Bale left, King retired, and that generation of Spurs players was ripped apart.

By that time, the mentality became clear for all to see - Top Four was the aim, nothing above that, nothing besides that. And we expected to make the Top Four with our penny-pinching negative net spend ways.

Since then, we've made the Top Four thrice, versus twice in the three and a half years Redknapp was in charge. All in the last three seasons. But the tactic hasn't changed one bit - we still expect our manager to deliver miracles on a negative budget.

Poch is a miracle-worker - but with a structure like that, I don't see how ENIC can ever get us to more than consistent Top Four finishes, if that.

As for Arsenal's FA Cups, sure. After about decade of austerity *post* stadium-move - if that means another decade of trophyless penny-pinching, then that's scant consolation.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Yep, with a minor push, Harry wouldn't have been interested in England, Modric and Bale would have said no to Madrid, VdV wouldn't have got old, and Ledley's knee would have made a miraculous recovery.
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Re: Harry, Modric and Bale, who knows what could have happened with a stronger squad -maybe a trophy, almost certainly top four anyway, maybe even a title. And then would things look the same?

Instead we got Levy's Bargain Bin Garbage Special, and we ended up in the sh*t.

Re: VDV, AVB binning him was a mistake, and I don't think he was over the hill when he left by any means. Still miss him, tbh. :(

LemonadeMoney said:
Complains about endless trophy drought, dismisses Arsenal's trophy haul.:confused:
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I did no such thing. Just pointed out that we are already trophyless for ten years and counting - to wait for another ten to have a chance of emulating Arsenal's recent successes is painful indeed.
 
Winning trophies seems to matter way too much to some fans. It's almost as though the football you play in order to win the bloody pot is irrelevant.

I watch football to be entertained pure and simple. I frankly couldn't give a monkey's if we never win another trophy in my lifetime so long as I can continue to enjoy watching my team play exciting, entertaining football. That to me is everything. Any trophies that come long as a result are just a welcome bonus.

You can be much the better team yet fall short through circumstances totally beyond your control. Lasagne-gate, Chelsea winning the CL, multiple injuries to key players at critical moments, the list goes on.

As for clubs throwing billions at it in order to buy success, well If that's what winning trophies is really all about then forget it. You can stick your meaningless pots where the sun don't shine.

Give me excellent football sans trophies over the Mourinho way every time. For me, that's where the real shine comes from.
 
Spur of the moment said:
Winning trophies seems to matter way too much to some fans. It's almost as though the football you play in order to win the bloody pot is irrelevant.

I watch football to be entertained pure and simple. I frankly couldn't give a monkey's if we never win another trophy in my lifetime so long as I can continue to enjoy watching my team play exciting, entertaining football. That to me is everything. Any trophies that come long as a result are just a welcome bonus.

You can be much the better team yet fall short through circumstances totally beyond your control. Lasagne-gate, Chelsea winning the CL, multiple injuries to key players at critical moments, the list goes on.

As for clubs throwing billions at it in order to buy success, well If that's what winning trophies is really all about then forget it. You can stick your meaningless pots where the sun don't shine.

Give me excellent football sans trophies over the Mourinho way every time. For me, that's where the real shine comes from.
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Great post
 
I was at Wembley when we won in in 1991. 1999 and 2008 and I enjoyed all three wins.

Now as much as I would love us to win another Cup now, I will not get bent out of shape and have a go at Poch because I remember when we won the League Cup in 2008 our first choice strike force of Keane and Berbatov decided to sod off to Liverpool and Man Utd respectively to play in the CL. Us winning a trophy was simply not enough to keep them.

For me the even though I have seen special players and cup victories, overall Poch has provided me with consistently the best football I have seen Spurs play in my lifetime, as I was not born when we won the double in 1961.

I like Poch and I like the team he has built
 
billyiddo said:
It's an interesting one, i do wonder if there was ever this type entitlement within the fan base back in days before 24/7 news and the internet - maybe some of our older members can remember back that far? :p
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Yeah I go all the way back to the early fifties (cue violins) but don't recall anything like what we're getting now. However like you say, it's the internet and forums like this egged on by the huge increase in media hype that the PL and CL are getting nowadays that amplifies the voice of the average fan, so who knows?
 
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