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European Super League - Dead on arrival

parklane1 said:
Well Stop! Hammer time i guess but i know quite a lot of S/T holders and to a man they are all against the idea and not sure if they will continue with their support. All those fans who think its a great idea and good for the game i wonder what they would say IF we had not been one of the 6 teams included in it? i would imagine it would be a different opinion then the one they seem to be saying "i/we are all right Jack, fudge everyone else".
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I think it says a lot about the world we live in, particularly post-Covid (I may be getting ahead of myself here... let's say 'transformed by Covid'). People are only in it for themselves, even more than before - even though I didn't think that was possible.

Different countries have different traditions and, from an outsider's point of view, I'd say that British solidarity always had an element of individualism, as opposed to what we've known in Eastern Europe, for instance, or in Southern Europe.

However, it's all academic at this point because it really feels that most people's response to the crisis is to take the money and run. You're correct when you say that opinions would be quite different on here if we hadn't been included but, conversely, opnions on other clubs' message boards would be quite different if their teams had been included. Everton's statement is nice to read but they'd bite the ESL's hand off if they were offered a way in. The Champions League has proved that everyone - and I do mean everyone - was ready to accept the status quo in exchange for a chance to sit at the table with the rest of the big boys. And the worst part is, they were right to do so! It worked for us. When the CL was introduced, we were light-years from qualifying and look at us now. We still won't qualify but we're founding members of the ESL.

Quite frankly there's so many things that look completely wrong to me at the moment that I don't know if I should actively rebel against this society or just accept that all this (so-called social networks, everyone turning on each other, limitless greed...) is the next logical step of evolution and wait until my time comes, like a good dinosaur.
 
treepits said:
I don’t want to speak for all football fans of all clubs but I think they may have to do a bit more then just make it easier and cheaper to watch the games
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Nope, that will have me sold. Cheaper to watch games between Europe’s biggest clubs rather than paying more for Burnley v Man U etc? I keep hearing ‘People will get bored of seeing the same fixtures home and away after a while’. Well I’d rather endure watching Spurs v Real Madrid twice than Spurs v Brighton twice a season and if the pricing is competitive even better....
 
Legohamster said:
FIFA don’t give a brick as long as it doesn’t touch the World Cup.

They want to rebrand the club World Cup and this helps towards that goal

when is the super league meant to
Start anyway
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I agree. FIFA wont help in blocking this. I saw Perez say start in August ideally, or if not asap thereafter
 
AdamB said:
Agree that UEFA have no leverage who are incompetent. Better though for the ESL to continue to put plans in place publicly to create an aire of inevitability about it IMO
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Why, plan of action

- Build the model, get legal paperwork in place - done
- Make announcement, resign from ECA, etc. - done
- Wait out inevitable media/pr response
- Build out the details, sponsors, schedules, etc. while locking final 5 sides
- Aggressively respond with legal action against challenges
- Make public more detail when it's clear no action to stop will be taken.

Re the Bale agent comment, that's exactly why FIFA said fudge all.

People really have no fudging idea

- Do you have any idea what it takes to get 12 large companies to sign a 23 year commitment? the fudging lawyers have probably been on this for a year.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
I think it says a lot about the world we live in, particularly post-Covid (I may be getting ahead of myself here... let's say 'transformed by Covid'). People are only in it for themselves, even more than before - even though I didn't think that was possible.

Different countries have different traditions and, from an outsider's point of view, I'd say that British solidarity always had an element of individualism, as opposed to what we've known in Eastern Europe, for instance, or in Southern Europe.

However, it's all academic at this point because it really feels that most people's response to the crisis is to take the money and run. You're correct when you say that opinions would be quite different on here if we hadn't been included but, conversely, opnions on other clubs' message boards would be quite different if their teams had been included. Everton's statement is nice to read but they'd bite the ESL's hand off if they were offered a way in. The Champions League has proved that everyone - and I do mean everyone - was ready to accept the status quo in exchange for a chance to sit at the table with the rest of the big boys. And the worst part is, they were right to do so! It worked for us. When the CL was introduced, we were light-years from qualifying and look at us now. We still won't qualify but we're founding members of the ESL.

Quite frankly there's so many things that look completely wrong to me at the moment that I don't know if I should actively rebel against this society or just accept that all this (so-called social networks, everyone turning on each other, limitless greed...) is the next logical step of evolution and wait until my time comes, like a good dinosaur.
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No mate, the world has always been that way, it has just been exposed.

I have lived through the worst of Covid in Madrid (was apartment confined for 3 months) and London, and the sheer idiocy of people and the me, me, me entitlement, who gives a fudge if people are dying, I'm inconvenienced ..

My view of the world is accept we are hypocrites to some extent, try to be a decent person, take care of your own first (not only, but first). You are not going to change the world for many, many reasons.
 
Raziel said:
No mate, the world has always been that way, it has just been exposed.

I have lived through the worst of Covid in Madrid (was apartment confined for 3 months) and London, and the sheer idiocy of people and the me, me, me entitlement, who gives a fudge if people are dying, I'm inconvenienced ..

My view of the world is accept we are hypocrites to some extent, try to be a decent person, take care of your own first (not only, but first). You are not going to change the world for many, many reasons.
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One thing covid has really Brought out, rules are to protect me from others, but don't apply to me.
 
If it happens and I'm believing it will them it's sad day because that really will kill my remaining interest in the game of football.

I was a Tottenham fan, but I was a fan of football first and foremost and this is anti everything I believe in.

Sad, sad times.
 
Raziel said:
They won't do it because nobody risks their house on what might be

For the remaining clubs
- For about 10 of those, not a fudging thing changes, nothing. Top 6 still top 6 albeit with more money, PL gravy train continues
- For about 4 (Everton, Leicester, West Ham mostly) the chance to become an elite club has died, with the upside of domestic cups probably becoming more winnable.

So anyone thinks 14 clubs are going to destroy the greatest financial model in league football anywhere for the hope that one day, one of them might do a Spurs and break into the elite? fudging never.
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I think the point is, the national leagues are no longer fair or worth watching. You'd have a clear two-tier PL for example, with 5 clubs in their own league - literally. They would have more money every year regardless of owner, or footballing success. That undermines the league, the spectacle and the product too. Moreover, @billyiddo point stands, the 15 teams playing each other regularly will be exciting for 4-5 seasons, then will be predictable and lacking freshness itself. Ironically, one of the reasons I wouldn't actually mind seeing the SL, is it would refresh things short term, and I think it would revert thereafter. Maybe after 4-5 years. The elite teams will have made back their covid cash, and we can go back to a more inclusive setup.

The thing about unfair advantage is that if its done under the radar then fine. Us Brits excel at these things. We legally skew and negate fair competition in all sorts of ways. But we do it with English aplomb - we don't shout about it and fix things with subtlety; without being blatent. This ESL is American brashness. It is overt commercialism. And so I can't see it going ahead in Europe.
 
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Bishop said:
If it happens and I'm believing it will them it's sad day because that really will kill my remaining interest in the game of football.

I was a Tottenham fan, but I was a fan of football first and foremost and this is anti everything I believe in.

Sad, sad times.
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I can see that, I'm the opposite, not a football fan, Spurs fan but I rarely watch games without some Spurs lens.
 
Im a Tottenham fan first and foremost too but this is as appealing as only having preseason tournaments and exhibition matches as my only means of watching us play.

PL becomes an irrelevance and the new league is a waste of time as you're only in it to take part and earn money - there's no competition. fudge that, plastic city.
 
SpurMeUp said:
View attachment 11653


I think the point is, the national leagues are no longer fair or worth watching. You have a clear two-tier PL for example, with 5 clubs in their own league - non-figuratively. They would have more money every year regardless of owner, or footballing success. That undermines the league, the spectacle and the product too. Moreover, @billyiddo point stands, the 15 teams playing each other regularly will be exciting for 4-5 seasons, then will be predictable and lacking freshness itself. Ironically, one of the reasons I wouldn't actually mind seeing this, is it would refresh things short term, and I think it would revert thereafter. Maybe after 4-5 years. The elite teams will have made back their covid cash, and we can go back to a more inclusive setup.

The thing about unfair advantage is that if its done under the radar then fine. Us Brits excel at these things. We legally skew and negate fair competition in all sorts of ways. But we do with English aplomb - we do it with subtlety and without being blatent. This SL is American brashness. It is overtly commercialism. And so I can't see it going ahead in Europe.
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The last part has me laughing, yep let Chelsea & City take blood money and fudging dominate the league but this is a step too far ..

To the first part, there is two problems

- We play the Scum every year, doesn't make it less exciting, can't see how Madrid every year becomes boring. The fact is we will be playing teams that want to play football, have the capability to play football, somehow that will be boring and we will want Burnley and Antwerp back?

- The money isn't equitable, this isn't about just club control, it's club control and 5X the money. there will be zero incentive for any club to return to the fold.
 
Legohamster said:
If you look at most the statements from the players/managers - they stop sort of actually condemning it.
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Yes - I'm not sure whether that's for fear of being fined by their clubs, or because they want to pick up more cash once the ESL gravy train starts.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see what comes out of the PL captains meeting tmrw which Henderson has called. I wouldnt expect any statement afterwards to be particularly well-written, but I wonder whether it'll be a half-way house - welcoming improvements to the game but wanting admission to the ESL to be more open
 
billyiddo said:
Im a Tottenham fan first and foremost too but this is as appealing as only having preseason tournaments and exhibition matches as my only means of watching us play.
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Why, honest question .. outside of the fact that other clubs get fudged (collateral damage)

- You wouldn't be up for Madrid, Barca, Milan, Juve at the lane every season? you prefer Burnley?
 
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