Europa League - Round of 32: Fiorentina (ITA)

[Dicko]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

TBH At this stage of the season playing those relegation threatened teams like Norwich and Sunderland is more of a potential slip up than playing Stoke and the Spammers who are virtually safe now anyway.

I doubt United will get the max 12pts or Spurs will get 7pts but we should still finish 6th

 

[Libero]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

I would prefer for us to be in the Europa League to be honest. I know that a clear run could be beneficial but I think that with the extra exposure to first team football that Fryers, Bentaleb and Kane have had, we could easily navigate the qualifiers and some of the group games with the likes of those players playing plus Pritchard, Lamieras and Fredericks being mixed in with some fringe first team regulars.

We need to keep our co-efficient ticking over and as it stands we are borderline second/third pot for seeds if we got to the Champions League for 2015/16 and a good run or winnning the Europa League would put us more than likely into that second pot if we got there.

That whole period of 15 years, where we were in Europe once is not a period I remember fondly at all. We should be playing European football as a club of our stature, virtually every season. It is nice that we have had it for nearly 10 consecutive seasons now with the exception of 09/10 after that drought starting in the 90s.

I think we will finish 6th, I don't see Man Utd beating Southampton and I don't think they will beat Sunderland either.

 

[metalgear]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

if europa league winners qualify for champions league then i say we take the chance.

 

[superspurs]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

meh, 7th place please, I can't stand the EL, biggest cluster**** of a competition in Football.

 

[Cotswold]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

Can't stand the Europa League.
i think it knackers the players completely.
I'd mind it less if it was on a Wednesday night, but playing in some far-flung part of eastern europe on a Thursday night wipes out the next day so an away match on the Sunday gets virtually no preparation time.
I'd rather have a year out of it and have a real crack at finishing top 4, rather than being in it again next season only to finish outside the top 4 again.
I think top 4 next season will be the hardest for some time as there is less between the teams than there has been in the past - that being so, any advantage must be worthwhile.

 

[Armchair Expert]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

"It's magnificent to be in Europe, and this club - a club like Tottenham Hotspur - if we're not in Europe.... we're nothing. We're nothing" - Bill Nicholson

Ok, so I'm old school about this, but I think being in the UEFA cup next season is really important:
- CL qualification will be easier through winning UEFA than finish 4th in the EPL
- It gives the new manager space to experiment and learn about his team
- We can afford to keep a bigger squad, which keeps us heading in the right direction for becoming top 4 competitors and CL regulars
- It's still prestigious in Europe and will help us attract players from the continent
- We get twice as many games to watch (midweeks are crap without Spurs games and glory glory European nights are great for fans)
- Anyone that disrespects the UEFA cup doesn't deserve CL - they are the same thing - the end not the means

We won't catch Everton/Arsenal and mathematically Southampton can't catch us. So it's now a two-way fight between us and United. We're 6 points clear of them having played a game more, but they have a 14 GD advantage

Remaining fixtures are:

Sat 26/4
Stoke - Tottenham
Man U - Norwich

Sat 3/5
Man U - Sunderland
West H - Tottenham

Tues 6/5
Man U - Hull

Sun 11/5
Soton - Man U
Tottenham - Villa

I think it is possible that United will get 12 points - that's some easy home games they've got.

That means we really need 7 points out of our final 3 matches. Stoke and West Ham are very poor but physical - the type of teams we traditionally do badly against. These are the type of matches we need to play a trio of Sandro, Capoue and Dembele (if Timmeh hadn't alienated them all and is going to have to play Chadli and Bentaleb), to give the attackers a base to work from. Villa should be more straight forward, but I've still got memories of Redknapp finally screwing up our 11-12 4th place campaign against them (subbing vdV and settling for a draw to get 4th, rather than a win to get 3rd).

Anyway - game on

bravo, my sentiments exactly =D>

unfortunately i think we're relying on Utd to drop points. i really, really don't think we'll get 6 points from those two away games. i could see us coming out with 1 or 3, which won't be enough i fear.

i'd be absolutely gutted if we don't get el. we've become a fixture in euro football now and it really needs to stay that way!

 

[chicken_badge]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

I think we'll get EL whatever way we do it. We will get through the group stages because quite frankly our third XI is good enough to get us past the first qualifier in July and unless we get a shocking draw, our first team would breeze the last round and then the group.

It is highly likely, whether you want it or not, we will be sitting in the hat for the last 32 next January. And as the promise of a CL spot comes closer I think this competition will look VERY different come next spring.

I am also convinced that either us or United will struggle to sign players that we want without European football. As much as I want Arsenal to miss out on CL, we if Everton nail it then there are 5 clubs ahead of us in the EPL who are undeniably more attractive to the "neutral" player. Ironic how we pipped Liverpool to all those "stars" last summer!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

I think we'll get EL whatever way we do it. We will get through the group stages because quite frankly our third XI is good enough to get us past the first qualifier in July and unless we get a shocking draw, our first team would breeze the last round and then the group.

It is highly likely, whether you want it or not, we will be sitting in the hat for the last 32 next January. And as the promise of a CL spot comes closer I think this competition will look VERY different come next spring.

I am also convinced that either us or United will struggle to sign players that we want without European football. As much as I want Arsenal to miss out on CL, we if Everton nail it then there are 5 clubs ahead of us in the EPL who are undeniably more attractive to the "neutral" player. Ironic how we pipped Liverpool to all those "stars" last summer!

I agree with all the above but stand by the fact that no side has ever qualified for the champions league whilst playing Europa other than Emirates Marketing Project who were woeful in. Europe but had spend about a billion quid to get a squad good enough...

And the competition is perfection letting the also rans from the Champions league into it. It completely degrades it

 

[Raziel]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

I agree with all the above but stand by the fact that no side has ever qualified for the champions league whilst playing Europa other than Emirates Marketing Project who were woeful in. Europe but had spend about a billion quid to get a squad good enough...

And the competition is perfection letting the also rans from the Champions league into it. It completely degrades it

But the problem is no team/manager really has the balls to play a 2nd team, we could have played (not counting injuries obviously)

Brad

Naughton - Dawson - Vlad - Fryers

Townsend - Dembele - Capoue - Siggy

Soldado - Kane

Bench - Holtby - Lamela - Paulinho - Carroll

this season in Europa without a single first team PL starter (you might argue Soldado, but you could swap him out for a midfielder/youth striker)

the problem is when we play Lloris, Walker, Vert, Eriksen type players ... not if we really build the squad around two teams.

 

[Yossarian]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

Yeah - I'd definitely rather Hull win the cup and we have to play a qualifier.

I do think our U21s could easily navigate the qualifying round, or just treat the games as a normal pre-season friendly.

This is the second thing the decision to sack Moyes has potentially screwed us up on.

The third thing if you include the morale boost Moyes' sacking will give them.

 

[braineclipse]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

"It's magnificent to be in Europe, and this club - a club like Tottenham Hotspur - if we're not in Europe.... we're nothing. We're nothing" - Bill Nicholson

By the way, do you guys think this quote would have been said with the same wording now as it was then if Bill Nicholson was our manager now?

Really, we're nothing if we're not 6th instead of 7th? That's the cutoff? I'm not buying it.

A cup win gave us Europe, a league win gave us Europe, a title challenge (second in the league) gave us Europe. That was a cutoff one could make a stand for. 6th and the Europa League? Nah...

 

[jts1882]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

Nice framing of the context.

When did he say it? For most of his tenure it was just winners in Europe (unless you include the Fairs Cup).

 

[Hootnow]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

I wish people would stop using that quote. As Brain said, I imagine Nicholson would say something slightly different now, the context of his comments, the time he said it in is completely different to now.

Also, do people really believe we'll win the Europa league?

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

EL qualifying will come close on the heels of Spurs tour of the US and Canada.

July 19 - Seattle
July 23 - Toronto
July 26 - Chicago
July ?? - Europa League qualifier

 

[greatwhitenorf]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

Can't stand the Europa League.
i think it knackers the players completely.
I'd mind it less if it was on a Wednesday night, but playing in some far-flung part of eastern europe on a Thursday night wipes out the next day so an away match on the Sunday gets virtually no preparation time.
I'd rather have a year out of it and have a real crack at finishing top 4, rather than being in it again next season only to finish outside the top 4 again.
I think top 4 next season will be the hardest for some time as there is less between the teams than there has been in the past - that being so, any advantage must be worthwhile.

What's the difference between playing away to Shaktar Donetsk or Zenit St. Petersburg in CL on Wednesday then having a Saturday match in England against playing away to Dinamo Kyiv or Ruben Kazan on Thursday and having a Sunday match in England?

Answer: The space between the perceiver's brain cells.

 

[tw12yid]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

No. They've changed the rules this season, so Hull have already qualified alongside whichever of Arsenal or Everton gets 5th.

The outside possibility is via the Fair Play, but IIRC England are not in one of the top positions at the moment, and even that would only generate a place in a lottery draw.

As far as i understand qualifying for europa league goes. England get 3 places 1 directly to the group stage, 1 in the play-off round and 1 in the 3rd qualifying round. The best qualifying place goes to the fa cup winners, so they go straight into the group stage. The second best qualifying place goes to the team who finish 5th, so into the play-off round. The last qualifying place goes to the league cup.

As it currently stands Arsenal are 4th therefore Hull will go into Europa league, although taking the worst qualifying place as they would qualify as a runner up(se Stoke 2010-11). 5th place would go straight to th group stage and 6th place will go into the play-off round.

However if Arsenal win the fa cup but finish 5th they will take the qualifying place from the FA cup as this is the best qualifying berth. 6th place would then go into the play-off round & 7th into the 3rd Qualifying.

 

[90sSpursBook]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

This is the definitive Euro situation. Basically it all depends on whether the Goons get 4th place.

If they do then Hull will qualify for the cup spot regardless of whether they win or lose the final; however, if Goons finish 5th then Hull will NOT get a europa league spot for finishing runners-up. We have not had a situation in last 10 years (where 4 English CL spots have been available) that the FA Cup has been won by a team outside of the top 4, but in a Europa spot, where they have played a team from lower down the leagues so this year would be something of a one-off if Goons finished 5th. The permeatations are as follows:

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH AND WIN FA CUP

Europa Group Stage: Everton (this spot is reserved for FA Cup winners but does not pass to runners-up to get '1st' europa spot bypassing qualifiers and play-offs)
Play-off round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)
3rd qualifying round: Hull City

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH BUT LOSE FA CUP FINAL:

Group Stage: Hull City
Play-off round: Everton
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND WIN FA CUP

Group stage: Goons
play-off round: 6th place PL
3rd qualifying round: 7th place PL

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND LOSE FA CUP FINAL :ross:

Group stage: Hull City
play-off round: Goons
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

As much as I hate to say it I'm sure the goons will finish 4th and win the FA Cup which means we, as 6th place side, would go into the play-off round. Equally I see us dropping points at either Stoke and/or spammers and expect United to get at least 10 points so make them favourites for 6th anyway.

My stance is that I would rather us be in Europa than not but I won't be too upset if we miss out. Personally as a season ticket holder I really begrudge having to use my two cup vouchers for teams I haven't heard of and then have to pay for at least 2 more group games plus any domestic cup ties. That said, I can see that from the club's perspective the EL is important and as someone pointed out last week it gives younger impressionable fans the opportunity to watch Spurs on TV on free-to-air TV often at favourable times and in games they will invariably win quite comfortably. This must help to create a new generation of Spurs fans.

 

[Whiffler]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

This is the definitive Euro situation. Basically it all depends on whether the Goons get 4th place.

If they do then Hull will qualify for the cup spot regardless of whether they win or lose the final; however, if Goons finish 5th then Hull will NOT get a europa league spot for finishing runners-up. We have not had a situation in last 10 years (where 4 English CL spots have been available) that the FA Cup has been won by a team outside of the top 4, but in a Europa spot, where they have played a team from lower down the leagues so this year would be something of a one-off if Goons finished 5th. The permeatations are as follows:

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH AND WIN FA CUP

Europa Group Stage: Everton (this spot is reserved for FA Cup winners but does not pass to runners-up to get '1st' europa spot bypassing qualifiers and play-offs)
Play-off round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)
3rd qualifying round: Hull City

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH BUT LOSE FA CUP FINAL:

Group Stage: Hull City
Play-off round: Everton
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND WIN FA CUP

Group stage: Goons
play-off round: 6th place PL
3rd qualifying round: 7th place PL

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND LOSE FA CUP FINAL :ross:

Group stage: Hull City
play-off round: Goons
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

As much as I hate to say it I'm sure the goons will finish 4th and win the FA Cup which means we, as 6th place side, would go into the play-off round. Equally I see us dropping points at either Stoke and/or spammers and expect United to get at least 10 points so make them favourites for 6th anyway.

My stance is that I would rather us be in Europa than not but I won't be too upset if we miss out. Personally as a season ticket holder I really begrudge having to use my two cup vouchers for teams I haven't heard of and then have to pay for at least 2 more group games plus any domestic cup ties. That said, I can see that from the club's perspective the EL is important and as someone pointed out last week it gives younger impressionable fans the opportunity to watch Spurs on TV on free-to-air TV often at favourable times and in games they will invariably win quite comfortably. This must help to create a new generation of Spurs fans.

Speaking as a Lord of Under-statement, I'm just back from a couple of pints in the pub, so cannot speak in absolute terms .... but this seems to sum up where we are.

The shame is that neither the club site, nor the FA site (who have final say on UEFA slots) have something as plain. Alas & alack, we are instead left to purveyors of ignorance & rumour (the press).

We should play in Europe whenever, in whichever competition. The Thursday thing is a burden imposed by the lilly livered, not the true Lillywhites.

 

[SUIYHA]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

The Europa League is a huge curse for sure, and normally I'd rather finish 7th in this situation.

However, with Man Utd about to get Van Gaal and about to spend £200m on overhauling their squad, we may not get another chance to finish above them for a very long time. The last time we did was 1990. I was 3 years old. It's taken an ageing squad, an injury to their star player, and a useless manager playing useless tactics for us to even have a chance of finishing above them. And as insignificant as this victory may seem, I'd like to enjoy bragging rights over all the plastic Man Utd ****s that I grew up with in the 1990s, for just one summer.

 

[paxtonwolf]

Re: The Race for Europe/6th Place

This is the definitive Euro situation. Basically it all depends on whether the Goons get 4th place.

If they do then Hull will qualify for the cup spot regardless of whether they win or lose the final; however, if Goons finish 5th then Hull will NOT get a europa league spot for finishing runners-up. We have not had a situation in last 10 years (where 4 English CL spots have been available) that the FA Cup has been won by a team outside of the top 4, but in a Europa spot, where they have played a team from lower down the leagues so this year would be something of a one-off if Goons finished 5th. The permeatations are as follows:

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH AND WIN FA CUP

Europa Group Stage: Everton (this spot is reserved for FA Cup winners but does not pass to runners-up to get '1st' europa spot bypassing qualifiers and play-offs)
Play-off round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)
3rd qualifying round: Hull City

IF GOONS FINISH 4TH BUT LOSE FA CUP FINAL:

Group Stage: Hull City
Play-off round: Everton
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND WIN FA CUP

Group stage: Goons
play-off round: 6th place PL
3rd qualifying round: 7th place PL

IF GOONS FINISH 5TH AND LOSE FA CUP FINAL :ross:

Group stage: Hull City
play-off round: Goons
3rd qualifying round: Spurs/Man Utd (6th)

As much as I hate to say it I'm sure the goons will finish 4th and win the FA Cup which means we, as 6th place side, would go into the play-off round. Equally I see us dropping points at either Stoke and/or spammers and expect United to get at least 10 points so make them favourites for 6th anyway.

My stance is that I would rather us be in Europa than not but I won't be too upset if we miss out. Personally as a season ticket holder I really begrudge having to use my two cup vouchers for teams I haven't heard of and then have to pay for at least 2 more group games plus any domestic cup ties. That said, I can see that from the club's perspective the EL is important and as someone pointed out last week it gives younger impressionable fans the opportunity to watch Spurs on TV on free-to-air TV often at favourable times and in games they will invariably win quite comfortably. This must help to create a new generation of Spurs fans.

Excellent post. I am very sure you have it all in a nutshell for everyone, covering all the 4 likely scenarios.

Personally, I am pretty sure permeatation #1 will be the likely outcome. Cant see Arsenal blowing 4th now with the last 3 fixtures they have compared to Everton, and lets face it, once City lost to Wigan I think most of us we're resigned to them winning the FA Cup.
Although playing a 2-legged Euro tie before the League season starts is a small price for us to pay to see Arsnal go trophyless for another season