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Europa League 2012-13 - QF: Basel (SUI)
- Thread starter Totting Them Up
- Start date
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
greatwhitenorf
Vedran Corluka
After all the chatter from the win at Swansea piped down, the pub chat turned to upcoming fixtures, fates and fortunes.
Win both matches against Basel, and we earn five UEFA points - two for each win, one for advancing to semis. That would put us a full point up on Emirates Marketing Project in the UEFA co-efficient tables and in with a strong likelihood of being placed in the second seeds' pot for a CL group stage draw, a strategic advantage that AVB has no doubt already digested.
A win and a draw would leave us dead level and no one had a clue what the tie-breaker would be.
So it makes it worthwhile to give this round a good go. Wins will definitely be harder to achieve in the semi-finals.
Win both matches against Basel, and we earn five UEFA points - two for each win, one for advancing to semis. That would put us a full point up on Emirates Marketing Project in the UEFA co-efficient tables and in with a strong likelihood of being placed in the second seeds' pot for a CL group stage draw, a strategic advantage that AVB has no doubt already digested.
A win and a draw would leave us dead level and no one had a clue what the tie-breaker would be.
So it makes it worthwhile to give this round a good go. Wins will definitely be harder to achieve in the semi-finals.
greatwhitenorf
Vedran Corluka
They'll be playing on that plastic pitch at the Luzhniki. Hopefully they'll be playing Spurs the following Sunday. They'll have aches and pains they aren't normally feeling because running on the artificial stuff means using certain muscles differently to safely stop or manoeuvre.
Many players who've played on the stuff regularly(MLS in past seasons) complained of many smaller, supporting muscles in the legs and lower abdomen becoming sore due to the need to run slightly differently on turf. It can be harder to recover from if you aren't accustomed to it and hopefully works in Spurs favour.
greatwhitenorf
Vedran Corluka
All I have to go by is the collective comments and reactions of many professional players who have played on them in recent years. Yet to hear someone say they prefer them or even enjoy playing on them. Apart from their keyboarding muscles, amateurs mostlly can't stress their bodies the way pros can and generally wonder what the fuss is all about. I've had fun on them.
MLS has had plastic pitches in recent years and gradually they've been replaced with real grass. I think New England and Seattle are the only teams left on plastic, due to stadium sharing deals with their NFL-linked owners. Here in Toronto, numerous players chose to leave the club - or not join at all - due to the plastic pitch that was originially installed. And it was a quality product with the silicone in-fill beads.
Many cited the unique aches and pains it caused due to changes in how players planted their feet when slowing down or manoeuvering. Groin strains were more frequent. Falls and slide tackles would produce nasty rashes. A lot of players veered toward caution when letting their sore spots heal, choosing not to play until fully healed, making lineup adjustments a constant headache.
(You just know this sub-topic could/will turn into an inconclusive, multi-page steaming debate fit for another thread.)
The main point in bringing it up is, like 'em or hate 'em, in the midst of a crowded fixture list, the plastic pitch becomes another unwelcome element for Chelsea to have to cope with and could be further complicated by lovely, frosty weather in Moscow - can't water it for starters. Add in the travel logistics, and if we have to play them three days later, we could hardly ask for better circumstances.
MLS has had plastic pitches in recent years and gradually they've been replaced with real grass. I think New England and Seattle are the only teams left on plastic, due to stadium sharing deals with their NFL-linked owners. Here in Toronto, numerous players chose to leave the club - or not join at all - due to the plastic pitch that was originially installed. And it was a quality product with the silicone in-fill beads.
Many cited the unique aches and pains it caused due to changes in how players planted their feet when slowing down or manoeuvering. Groin strains were more frequent. Falls and slide tackles would produce nasty rashes. A lot of players veered toward caution when letting their sore spots heal, choosing not to play until fully healed, making lineup adjustments a constant headache.
(You just know this sub-topic could/will turn into an inconclusive, multi-page steaming debate fit for another thread.)
The main point in bringing it up is, like 'em or hate 'em, in the midst of a crowded fixture list, the plastic pitch becomes another unwelcome element for Chelsea to have to cope with and could be further complicated by lovely, frosty weather in Moscow - can't water it for starters. Add in the travel logistics, and if we have to play them three days later, we could hardly ask for better circumstances.
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greatwhitenorf
Vedran Corluka
So, just to nerd out a little further, we're 26th ranked on the UEFA list. If we can earn max points in the two legs with Basel, it lifts us into 20th place. There's a chance PSG could nudge ahead of us, but they'd have to earn a win or a draw vs. Barcelona. Juventus currently are 19th and are still active in CL and likely to earn more points.
If we sit 20th, there's at least four higher-ranked clubs that won't be in CL next season - Liverpool, Sporting, Inter and Zenit. If we're in, then one of Chelsea or Arsenal is out, so effectively we'd be no worse than the 15th-ranked club and within the second seed range. There's also a further cushion available if one or more of four clubs fails to succeed from close battles currently going on in their domestic leagues - Valencia(5th, 2 pts. out), Schalke(4th, up by 3 pts. and in a battle), Lyon(2nd, up by 3 on St. Etienne), Marseille(3rd, up by 1 on St. Etienne, more close by.)
To win the cup we need to play five more matches, granting a possible maximum of 12 points(assuming all a club gets is two points for winning the final). Earn that and we'd be tied with Liverpool, a club soon destined to plummet in the rankings as their two best recent seasons will begin to come off UEFA's five year co-efficient equation. They'll be lucky to stay in the top 50 after next season.
If we sit 20th, there's at least four higher-ranked clubs that won't be in CL next season - Liverpool, Sporting, Inter and Zenit. If we're in, then one of Chelsea or Arsenal is out, so effectively we'd be no worse than the 15th-ranked club and within the second seed range. There's also a further cushion available if one or more of four clubs fails to succeed from close battles currently going on in their domestic leagues - Valencia(5th, 2 pts. out), Schalke(4th, up by 3 pts. and in a battle), Lyon(2nd, up by 3 on St. Etienne), Marseille(3rd, up by 1 on St. Etienne, more close by.)
To win the cup we need to play five more matches, granting a possible maximum of 12 points(assuming all a club gets is two points for winning the final). Earn that and we'd be tied with Liverpool, a club soon destined to plummet in the rankings as their two best recent seasons will begin to come off UEFA's five year co-efficient equation. They'll be lucky to stay in the top 50 after next season.
All this becomes irrelevant if we put too much effort in to the Europa and thereby drop points in the league and dont finish top 4
I want us to rest the our Holy Trinity of World Class players and save their legs for the Everton game. Those being Bale, Verts and Parker - the third World Class player we have is Sandro of course, but I've upgraded Parker's ability to make it easier to come to terms with Sandro's loss.
I wouldn't play Lennon or Dembele either.
Everton ALWAYS give you a tough game and we'll need to be at our best to beat them. Anything less and they'll probably turn us over.
The Europa has already cost us between 3-6 points already, more than it's worth.
AVB needs to think of the long term future of the club, missing out on the CL has consequences too serious to warrant losing league points at the expense of the winning the Europa League.
I wouldn't play Lennon or Dembele either.
Everton ALWAYS give you a tough game and we'll need to be at our best to beat them. Anything less and they'll probably turn us over.
The Europa has already cost us between 3-6 points already, more than it's worth.
AVB needs to think of the long term future of the club, missing out on the CL has consequences too serious to warrant losing league points at the expense of the winning the Europa League.
If we want to be a big club, we need to think like a big club.
That means fighting for every trophy that we're in. Not fielding reserve teams and half hoping that we get knocked out.
You can't just say that the Europa League has cost us x number of points this season, as if it is a matter of fact. Because it is no such thing. Any number of factors involved in every result / performance. There's also no knowing the full extent of the positive effect of remaining in the EL - given that we have a genuine chance of winning it. It could be worth more, on the positive, than the 3-6 points that you claim it has lost us.
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If you offered me Europa Cup win or ECL qualification I would say both.
Some here are proud of our season in ECL but I am actually disappointed because I think we could have gone further.
We are a big club trapped in a small ground and our squad this year is capable of doing well in both competitions. Funnily enough I have not been to the Lane this season but I am going to both the Basle and Everton games and I want to see our best team in both games.
Thanks for that bit of info.
It's about the bigger picture, here's the reality of the Summer newspaper stories if we won the Europa League but missed out on CL football.
"Bale-ing out!"
"Tottenham Hotpsur were rocked last yesterday when their star player put in a transfer request. "I've loved my time at the club and winning the Europa League was fantastic. But I feel I need to be playing Champions League football to go to the next level..."
"Janku and out"
"Spurs player Jan Vertonghan has given his first indication that he's looking to move on from the club. He's told friends he misses the Champions League nights he used to regularly experience at Ajax, and the Europa League, which Tottenham won last season, just doesn't hold the same lure..."
"City launch £30 million raid for Sandro!"
"Emirates Marketing Project are said to be preparing a massive bid to lure Brazilian hard man Sandro - known affectionately as "The Beast" to the Ethiad Stadium. They see him as a massive upgrade to the ageing Gareth Barry. Although happy at Spurs, City are confident of getting their man, as they believe the lure of Champions League football will prove to great to turn down, especially as the player desperately needs a big platform to force his way into the World Cup squad, taking place in his native Brazil."
"Damaio snubs Spurs... again!"
"The Brazillian has said the lure of Champions League football at Napoli proved to be the deciding factor."
"Tottenham announce new £10 million a year sponsorship deal."
"... the club are said to be disappointed at the figure and had hoped for a deal double that, but potential sponsors were said to be put off by Spurs' failure to gain Champions League football."
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Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
You know that all these stories could be true if we did get champions league right? There is no way to know until it happens.
The players are far less likely to leave if we are winning things though.
Sandro and Verts are on long term contracts and won't be leaving this summer, i have yet to see anything showing that Damio is that striker we need.
Also they won't give us a bumper sponsorship deal unless we qualify for the CL consistently.
Bale is the only questionable one, and it'd be more like..
'Gareth Bale has signed a one year contract extension, his major reason for doing this was the way in which tottenham took a european trophy last season.'
See, i can make things up that sound true too.
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Nothing wrong with a little creative writing.
But it completely fails to address the core issue - which is that there is not a shred of compelling evidence to prove that properly competing in cup competitions necessarily hinders league performance.