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Eric Dier

papaspur said:
Romero is still young and he's had to adjust to some brickshow of a defensive unit, let's see how he does under Conte. As for Dier, simply not good enough for Spurs. I get that he was played as a DM under Poch and all that so he didn't have the benefit of developing as a proper CB, but this is his preferred position and you have to be cool and commanding as a CB, which I would say he's neither. He hasn't been utter dogbrick-tier, just saying he's not good enough. I find that a lot of people here get very defensive about certain players (dier, dele), but again I have to repeat, I think most of us that criticize any player don't want the player to keel over and die; we just want some improvement and in a leaky defense, the GK and CBs should be the first ones who need to be inspected... and I do think Lloris has been part of the problem as well.
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Improvement is always a good thing, and if Conte can improve the situation I feel certain he will. Until then, Dier is Romero’s chosen partner. So as of now, he is good enough for Spurs, as he has been for every manager he’s played under. As you’ve seen, thanks to Conte improving the press and effort of the entire team against Everton, the results were pretty rapid in terms of concession. If, as another poster said, we could now improve our goal tally, and by proxy our work in the final third which to me is a huge priority, then we’d be roaring.
 
thfcsteff said:
Dear GHod, this gubbins again?…


How many managers have rated him? Come on folks, look for something else to moan about…
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I think this is stating the obvious, but isn’t critiquing the players what this forum is for? :D We have conceded 16 goals and have a goal difference of -7, only one other team in the top half have conceded more goals than us. Part of that is because we have also failed to score in most of the league games but it’s quite natural to look at the reasons why we are leaking goals. Not all of that is on Dier but as others have said, he’s been a part of a defensive unit that has cost managers their jobs because we were unable to hold onto leads and Dier has been at the club 7 years and at the very least is upgradable.
 
parklane1 said:
Not a chance mate you know that, so many fans have him on the hit list and no matter how he plays they will not back down on that. I have a feeling that he will play a big part under Conte which will upset them.
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It will only upset people if he plays badly. If he plays well everyone will be happy. If however he plays like he did under the majority of Jose’s time and the last couple of years of Poch’s tenure and we leak goals like we are now then people will rightly ask questions of the back four and the goalkeeper.
 
Jurgen the German said:
It will only upset people if he plays badly. If he plays well everyone will be happy. If however he plays like he did under the majority of Jose’s time and the last couple of years of Poch’s tenure and we leak goals like we are now then people will rightly ask questions of the back four and the goalkeeper.
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Well in a lot of fans eyes he has played well this season ( so far) but is still getting stick from the usual suspects.
 
parklane1 said:
Well in a lot of fans eyes he has played well this season ( so far) but is still getting stick from the usual suspects.
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We have conceded a lot of goals this season (2nd most in the top half) so naturally people will ask questions of the back four both individually and collectively. People would cut him more slack if he had more credit in the bank like Hojbjerg or Son but Dier has not been consistent over the last few years which most likely explains why people get on his case. Let’s see how he performs under Conte but you seem to insinuate that people have it in for him whereas people like myself and others have pointed out, we just want to concede less goals and win more games.
 
parklane1 said:
Well in a lot of fans eyes he has played well this season ( so far) but is still getting stick from the usual suspects.
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If by well you mean anything better than he has shown then i agree, but even then still not good enough.
 
This is exactly the sort of behavior I alluded to when I mentioned that people get defensive when stating that X player is underperforming (the baseline being a player for a top-6 side, let's say). The only agenda here should be to see Spurs do well... why would anyone here who's truly a Spurs fan want a player to fail? There's simply no logical sense there. On the flipside, what's the benefit of having the agenda of defending a player who's playing poorly? It's fine to disagree, but at least back your opinions up with meaningful facts.
Saying that Dier has been here for 7 years as some kind of vindication could be turned around on its head since we've had a downturn with him starting more matches as a CB.

To summarize:
  • no one wants Dier to fail... this is an asinine strawman argument
  • we have been extremely leaky this season, he has to be seen as one of the culprits (obviously the manager has something to do with it too, the other players next to him, etc)
  • using common logical fallacies only serves to further undermine your own argument
  • as Jurgen stated, let's see how he does under Conte; if he gets Dier playing extremely well, that would be one less area we'd need to focus on improving
  • not sure if he's the first player I would replace at the moment... I do think our midfield and right-winger need to be improved first, but I also believe that a top-tier center back should be high priority because of the confidence it could give the rest of the team the confidence to actually play
 
papaspur said:
This is exactly the sort of behavior I alluded to when I mentioned that people get defensive when stating that X player is underperforming (the baseline being a player for a top-6 side, let's say). The only agenda here should be to see Spurs do well... why would anyone here who's truly a Spurs fan want a player to fail? There's simply no logical sense there. On the flipside, what's the benefit of having the agenda of defending a player who's playing poorly? It's fine to disagree, but at least back your opinions up with meaningful facts.
Saying that Dier has been here for 7 years as some kind of vindication could be turned around on its head since we've had a downturn with him starting more matches as a CB.

To summarize:
  • no one wants Dier to fail... this is an asinine strawman argument
  • we have been extremely leaky this season, he has to be seen as one of the culprits (obviously the manager has something to do with it too, the other players next to him, etc)
  • using common logical fallacies only serves to further undermine your own argument
  • as Jurgen stated, let's see how he does under Conte; if he gets Dier playing extremely well, that would be one less area we'd need to focus on improving
  • not sure if he's the first player I would replace at the moment... I do think our midfield and right-winger need to be improved first, but I also believe that a top-tier center back should be high priority because of the confidence it could give the rest of the team the confidence to actually play
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Yep. And being at a club for a number of years is not necessarily a good thing or a sign that they’re a top player. Granit Xhaka has been at Arsenal for a number of years but they still need to replace him. Sometimes clubs hang on to players too long. Maybe Conte will get the best out of Dier but as I said before, Dier doesn’t have a great deal of credit in in the bank in terms from performances over the last 2-3 years.
 
parklane1 said:
Of course, it will be interesting to see what Conte sees as the most needed.
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CM looks a mess to me, balance is all wrong, I reckon he’ll make that a priority. I like all of Hojberg, Skipp, Ndombele, Lo Celso individually and I’m even one of the last few to think there’s a player somewhere still in Winks, but the balance of that CM has stunk all season.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
CM looks a mess to me, balance is all wrong, I reckon he’ll make that a priority. I like all of Hojberg, Skipp, Ndombele, Lo Celso individually and I’m even one of the last few to think there’s a player somewhere still in Winks, but the balance of that CM has stunk all season.
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I do agree, we have some very good players in CM but at the moment they are not blending. That needs sorting before we look at other posistions.
 
I'm very sure our CB needs overhauling, just look at past results. Cm and dual DM has been compensating with a very low defence line consequently making it hard to support attack.

Mourinho and Nuno tried to pack the bus but still, individual mistakes in defence continued to undermine.

Conte is playing higher and caught Benitez by surprise imo, but I anticipate that in future games we will be tested through the midfield like before. Icalso expect Dier to see more 1 on 1 situations and be properly tested with one DM ahead of him.

Verts and Toby were good enough but not in the top bracket of defenders. Yes they were acknowledged but didn't see top clubs offering top dollar for them. And Dier is no where in terms of reading, interception and organisation... But do we want to settle at Dier's level?

Davies was one of our best defenders last outing... Ha!.... Really sad if you think about it. Have you watched Cancelo, van dijk and varane recently?

Sent from my SM-G998B using Fapatalk
 
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Answers in bold-face below.

papaspur said:
This is exactly the sort of behavior I alluded to when I mentioned that people get defensive when stating that X player is underperforming (the baseline being a player for a top-6 side, let's say).

You set it up to deliver your result. Should we keep quiet if we disagree? I dislike that sort of positioning and frankly think it's cheap. Besides, 'X player' is rarely repeatedly criticized in the same way.



The only agenda here should be to see Spurs do well... why would anyone here who's truly a Spurs fan want a player to fail? There's simply no logical sense there. On the flipside, what's the benefit of having the agenda of defending a player who's playing poorly? It's fine to disagree, but at least back your opinions up with meaningful facts.

What 'meaningful facts' are there? Do you know how to tangibly measure a player's onfield leadership and experience? Why not tell me me -tangibly- how many actual goals Dier has been directly responsible for in the years mentioned? In fact the only tangible fact here is that successive managers have chosen him repeatedly since he was signed. Clearly, professionals at the club have different opinions to several here.


Saying that Dier has been here for 7 years as some kind of vindication could be turned around on its head since we've had a downturn with him starting more matches as a CB.

You'll have to back that statement up.

To summarize:
  • no one wants Dier to fail... this is an asinine strawman argument

Did I say people 'wanted him to fail'? I don't recall having said that at all. Asinine indeed my friend...

  • we have been extremely leaky this season, he has to be seen as one of the culprits (obviously the manager has something to do with it too, the other players next to him, etc)
  • using common logical fallacies only serves to further undermine your own argument
He was part of a side with three clean sheets to start the season. He was then part of a very disrupted side which let in 9 goals in several games. To say he was the key factor in either swing would be speculative to say the least.

  • as Jurgen stated, let's see how he does under Conte; if he gets Dier playing extremely well, that would be one less area we'd need to focus on improving
  • not sure if he's the first player I would replace at the moment... I do think our midfield and right-winger need to be improved first, but I also believe that a top-tier center back should be high priority because of the confidence it could give the rest of the team the confidence to actually play
FWIW I think Conte will eventually upgrade him, especially if he decides to play Romero in the center of a three...no, I just think it's poor that all the woes of our defense always fall on Dier. It is, IMO, lazy. He remains an easy target.

As for 'areas for Conte to improve' that'd be the entire team at this point, starting with the forwards. I am sure he will improve them, and indeed by proxy, the team as he needs to.
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Bishop said:
How many of those managers have been sacked for poor performances and a crap defense? [emoji28]
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One of those managers was sacked because our chairman decided that his fantasy was available and thus took a cheap opportunity to sack him. It was his greatest mistake. Many to this day cannot bring themselves to admit it. Even if you think he had to go, that was not the right time or the right manager to bring in, especially with Tuchel on shaky ground at PSG...anyway...
 
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