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ENIC

Finney Is Back said:
Why do they 'seem to think they are special'? How many of them do you know? How much time have you spent with them and listening to their point of view?
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I think the only thing I would say against ROTS (and re-enforced listening to a podcast clip he posted today) is that there is a lack of understanding that people have bought season tickets in particular areas and the club can’t just move them mid-season (or any season) saying ‘this is now a singing section’. So the club sends an email to ST holders to advise them that a particular block is designated a singing section for a certain game and if that’s not what you want you can buy a seat elsewhere. But ROTS seems to expect more and I’m not really sure what he can realistically expect.
I admire the effort he and THFC Flags and Spurs Song Sheet have put in but I think they’ve missed a trick as they could have used the current sentiment to advocate the club backing their efforts.
I do appreciate the brick wall they are facing though. I just believe it’s wrong to put it at Levy’s door - I doubt he’s particularly aware of that macro level of detail.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I think the only thing I would say against ROTS (and re-enforced listening to a podcast clip he posted today) is that there is a lack of understanding that people have bought season tickets in particular areas and the club can’t just move them mid-season (or any season) saying ‘this is now a singing section’. So the club sends an email to ST holders to advise them that a particular block is designated a singing section for a certain game and if that’s not what you want you can buy a seat elsewhere. But ROTS seems to expect more and I’m not really sure what he can realistically expect.
I admire the effort he and THFC Flags and Spurs Song Sheet have put in but I think they’ve missed a trick as they could have used the current sentiment to advocate the club backing their efforts.
I do appreciate the brick wall they are facing though. I just believe it’s wrong to put it at Levy’s door - I doubt he’s particularly aware of that macro level of detail.
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You seem to know about them and I therefore respect your opinion.

I just find it strange that some people with no knowledge will take a default position of siding against them.
 
Finney Is Back said:
You seem to know about them and I therefore respect your opinion.

I just find it strange that some people with no knowledge will take a default position of siding against them.
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I follow them on Tw itter. Don’t know them personally. I can appreciate what they are trying to do without necessarily agreeing with everything they say. And I am neither pro nor anti-Levy so don’t have any skin in that game. I don’t see why anyone would be against trying to improve the atmosphere which to be honest can be crap at times )but was also crap at times at WHL).
 
Baleforce said:
Yes.

It’s about the messaging, inclusive, progressive, crack on.

Borish, fake partisan gonads, fudge off.
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Do you not see the irony in saying one set of people can have flags but everyone else can’t? It’s usually the complete opposite of what you would usually argue for (inclusion).
 
Jurgen the German said:
Do you not see the irony in saying one set of people can have flags but everyone else can’t? It’s usually the complete opposite of what you would usually argue for (inclusion).
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You have the hump with this?

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Raziel said:
I think fans have changed not the stadium

I've been in WHL when we were brick and it felt that the fudging stadium was going to fall down from the noise and banging

I've been in the new one when we are winning and the atmosphere is brick

And it's not tourist, or new season ticket holders, like a lot of society, entitlement, years of media pushing a narrative, a view that the team is here to entertain and if they don't we can be as brick/stupid/boo/whatever as much as we want. A view that my club isn't good enough unless I can lord over other fans with "accomplishments", when the fudge did how much you care/support you club become directly related to if we won a trophy last year?

Watched the highlights of Leeds playing this week (and yes, fudge them), but the way the crowd was behind that team is something all top 6 sides have lost (unless blowing away opposition or on great run)
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YES! All this and more!!!! The entitlement thing especially, and exactly as you said - society is also in that regressive groove!
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I find this a weird narrative.

I've been a game going fan since 86/87.
What I have done through the decades is exactly the same. Paid my money for a ticket (or on the turnstile) entered the ground and had fun/a laugh/delirium/excitement/sadness/misery/heartbreak delete as appropriate.

The way the club 'treats' me has very little to do with whichever of those outcomes come to pass on a match day.

How wounded can one be if they have a client reference number? Would a fan number be better? Am I upset that chirpy is no longer up to mischief on matchdays?

A ST or member relationship with the club has been pretty much what it is now ie a pack thru the door every year.
What else are you hoping for in this area?

Prices have in relative terms risen. But it safe to say so have the costs for the club. The costs we are always on the back of the club to pay.

I'd suggest a greater reason for disillusionment with going, and dis-attachment are those around you. The mindset is based in negativity and moaning (in the main).

The club structured the stadium to give us an amazing single tier 'home stand' , and what do we do with it?
I watch so many games from abroad (and I'm not sure if this is an English fan problem, not just Spurs) where the supporters are fully bought in, visually ,sonically and emotionally.
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And again I find total agreement!!!!!!

I wanted to focus on that bold-face line above. It is so, so true. And I find the world is so, so rooted (and conditioned so by contant emotional triggers) to always complain about what we don't have, what we should be doing, what we 'deserve' to be 'having' instead of (at times of struggle) trying to balance out the obvious dismay with thoughts for what we do have, what we are doinng, and what we actually have!!!

It annoys me that people blame 'tourists', because the truth is, if tourists saw people singing and enjoying life, many would join in for the experience. I think about my times going as a 'tourist' to neutral club games in Brazil and Argentina, and I was absolutely welcomed by some of the roughest looking blokes every time. We sang songs neither of us understood, drank some beers and had a great old time. The next time someone tinkles and moans about folks coming to see Sonny, how about saying hello, singing and getting them smiling and into it? I did last season (I actually saw it as a diplomatic duty of my 'greybeard' status to show some fudging hospitality!!!!!)

Brilliant post. Miss ya mate!
 
thfcsteff said:
And again I find total agreement!!!!!!

I wanted to focus on that bold-face line above. It is so, so true. And I find the world is so, so rooted (and conditioned so by contant emotional triggers) to always complain about what we don't have, what we should be doing, what we 'deserve' to be 'having' instead of (at times of struggle) trying to balance out the obvious dismay with thoughts for what we do have, what we are doinng, and what we actually have!!!

It annoys me that people blame 'tourists', because the truth is, if tourists saw people singing and enjoying life, many would join in for the experience. I think about my times going as a 'tourist' to neutral club games in Brazil and Argentina, and I was absolutely welcomed by some of the roughest looking blokes every time. We sang songs neither of us understood, drank some beers and had a great old time. The next time someone tinkles and moans about folks coming to see Sonny, how about saying hello, singing and getting them smiling and into it? I did last season (I actually saw it as a diplomatic duty of my 'greybeard' status to show some fudging hospitality!!!!!)

Brilliant post. Miss ya mate!
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Agree with you both…but only a bit!

Football back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s was a different world, and games were attended only by die-hards. The game was on its knees financially. The atmosphere at games wasn’t some utopian dream, though, with everyone uncomplainingly behind the team and watching in a spirit of brotherly and sisterly love. There was some pretty awful violence…and an absolute s hitload of moaning on the terraces!

The difference then was that social media didn’t exist. By and large, the moaning couldn’t be heard in any meaningful way once fans left the ground. It could, though, be heard when groups of supporters met each other for pints in pubs, and occasionally in letters pages to the local press.

The internet has obviously changed that.

I agree the giving of a CRN number to fans is not some sort of mad trigger which suddenly makes fans feel entitled. It is, though, symptomatic of fans being treated as a commodity in a way that they weren’t in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, as are the daily emails from the club trying to sell fans everything from concert tickets to toy F1 experiences (and, even occasionally, things to do with football).

People - and football fans - have always complained. Their voices just weren’t amplified in the way they now are. If we’re honest, having a good old moan about your team can be one of the joys of the game, and a healthy way of releasing frustrations from other aspects of life. After all, football is the most important of the least important things in life! At the end of the day, it doesn’t actually matter THAT much. It is a distraction…an ENTERTAINMENT. And what do people do if they don’t like a film, book or play? They have a moan, tell their friends it was s hit, and then get on with their lives. Football isn’t any different.

The club are now, more than ever, involved with selling a product - a situation they, and the football authorities, have made. So I don’t think they, or we, can be too surprised if their ‘clients’ from time to time let it be known (as the world now allows them to do with ease) that they are unhappy with what they are being charged for.
 
Mikey10 said:
Agree with you both…but only a bit!

Football back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s was a different world, and games were attended only by die-hards. The game was on its knees financially. The atmosphere at games wasn’t some utopian dream, though, with everyone uncomplainingly behind the team and watching in a spirit of brotherly and sisterly love. There was some pretty awful violence…and an absolute s hitload of moaning on the terraces!

The difference then was that social media didn’t exist. By and large, the moaning couldn’t be heard in any meaningful way once fans left the ground. It could, though, be heard when groups of supporters met each other for pints in pubs, and occasionally in letters pages to the local press.

The internet has obviously changed that.

I agree the giving of a CRN number to fans is not some sort of mad trigger which suddenly makes fans feel entitled. It is, though, symptomatic of fans being treated as a commodity in a way that they weren’t in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, as are the daily emails from the club trying to sell fans everything from concert tickets to toy F1 experiences (and, even occasionally, things to do with football).

People - and football fans - have always complained. Their voices just weren’t amplified in the way they now are. If we’re honest, having a good old moan about your team can be one of the joys of the game, and a healthy way of releasing frustrations from other aspects of life. After all, football is the most important of the least important things in life! At the end of the day, it doesn’t actually matter THAT much. It is a distraction…an ENTERTAINMENT. And what do people do if they don’t like a film, book or play? They have a moan, tell their friends it was s hit, and then get on with their lives. Football isn’t any different.

The club are now, more than ever, involved with selling a product - a situation they, and the football authorities, have made. So I don’t think they, or we, can be too surprised if their ‘clients’ from time to time let it be known (as the world now allows them to do with ease) that they are unhappy with what they are being charged for.
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As you say, there is now a voice, and uncontrolled one
Social media has created that and it’s not all for the better
Giving people an platform to monetise negativity or ridicule is not a great thing for the future of this planet
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
As you day, there is now a voice, and uncontrolled one
Social media has created that and it’s not all for the better
Giving people an platform to monetise negativity or ridicule is not a great thing for the future of this planet
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Not even from a football perspective, but for me the negatives outweigh the benefits of social media. Hate is spread so much more easily now, I couldn't give a fudge if I have access to news quicker now. Didn't mind the days of reading a paper and looking at t.e.l.e.text I somehow managed to survive....
 
Mikey10 said:
Agree with you both…but only a bit!

Football back in the 70s, 80s and early 90s was a different world, and games were attended only by die-hards. The game was on its knees financially. The atmosphere at games wasn’t some utopian dream, though, with everyone uncomplainingly behind the team and watching in a spirit of brotherly and sisterly love. There was some pretty awful violence…and an absolute s hitload of moaning on the terraces!

The difference then was that social media didn’t exist. By and large, the moaning couldn’t be heard in any meaningful way once fans left the ground. It could, though, be heard when groups of supporters met each other for pints in pubs, and occasionally in letters pages to the local press.

The internet has obviously changed that.

I agree the giving of a CRN number to fans is not some sort of mad trigger which suddenly makes fans feel entitled. It is, though, symptomatic of fans being treated as a commodity in a way that they weren’t in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, as are the daily emails from the club trying to sell fans everything from concert tickets to toy F1 experiences (and, even occasionally, things to do with football).

People - and football fans - have always complained. Their voices just weren’t amplified in the way they now are. If we’re honest, having a good old moan about your team can be one of the joys of the game, and a healthy way of releasing frustrations from other aspects of life. After all, football is the most important of the least important things in life! At the end of the day, it doesn’t actually matter THAT much. It is a distraction…an ENTERTAINMENT. And what do people do if they don’t like a film, book or play? They have a moan, tell their friends it was s hit, and then get on with their lives. Football isn’t any different.

The club are now, more than ever, involved with selling a product - a situation they, and the football authorities, have made. So I don’t think they, or we, can be too surprised if their ‘clients’ from time to time let it be known (as the world now allows them to do with ease) that they are unhappy with what they are being charged for.
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And let’s not forget, football back then was really fudging brick.

The money has changed it, but the quality is off the charts now.
 
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