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ENIC

Too much of either is a bad thing, imo. Our club is run by men who input little, and only use the club's own money to manage the club's own affairs, with their only claim to legitimacy as owners being that they are competent and make good decisions running the club.

When they make good decisions, praise them: when they make bad decisions, criticize them. They don't earn a reprieve, because they don't put much of their own money where their collective mouth is when they make the bad decisions: they just carry on trying to dig themselves out of the hole they put themselves in with their ownership method.

You just agreed in another thread that we're at best judging them on limited information. I really feel this warrants more support rather than less as we can't be sure.

Again and again it boils down to them not putting money into the club with you. I wish you would, if even just for the sake of argument, accept that this is the premise we're working under. Levy can't really change this, he's not the man with the massive amounts of money. His decisions are made within the current ownership model.

Levy gets **** when we don't sign the players the head coach/manager/DoF supposedly wants. But when we sign players that don't work out he also gets ****. This to me seems wholly unfair unless Levy is the one identifying the targets, and I really doubt he is.
 
You just agreed in another thread that we're at best judging them on limited information. I really feel this warrants more support rather than less as we can't be sure.

Again and again it boils down to them not putting money into the club with you. I wish you would, if even just for the sake of argument, accept that this is the premise we're working under. Levy can't really change this, he's not the man with the massive amounts of money. His decisions are made within the current ownership model.

Levy gets **** when we don't sign the players the head coach/manager/DoF supposedly wants. But when we sign players that don't work out he also gets ****. This to me seems wholly unfair unless Levy is the one identifying the targets, and I really doubt he is.

We are judging them on limited information. This, I entirely agree with. However, I personally don't see much point in supporting them when they have been proven to have made bad decisions.

Look, it is about the ownership model: it cannot be divorced from any discussion of Levy/ENIC, and trust me, I've tried to, because it makes me somewhat miffed just thinking about it. Levy and ENIC deserve our support when they make good decisions. Levy and ENIC do not deserve our support when they make bad decisions. There is no ground where fans have a reason to continue to support them even when they make bad decisions: that luxury is only given to owners who put significant amounts of their money into the clubs that they own, since it gives fans the feeling that their owner is invested in the club, and thus deserves some slack.

Our owners derive their legitimacy purely from their ability to make good decisions: there is almost nothing else they offer to us, apart from that: and from their side, we're nothing more than an enormously profitable, almost no-risk investment, nothing more. This is the reality.

So, what logical reason can we have to Figbird them their bad decisions, when they have been proven to have made them? The relationship is clearly flimsy. They have constructed this club on the idea that it can run perfectly well without any input from them: and they've succeeded in doing that, and for that they deserve credit. But by doing so, they've also obviated the need for them to be around, and have clearly taken us as far as we can go using this model: and since they don't intend to put much more of their own money into the club, the best I can expect from them is that they make half-decent decisions from now up until the stadium's finished, sell up, take their enormous profit and go.

The way they have run this club since we hit the heights in 09/10 has been eye-opening: in my eyes, they have blown a golden chance for us to enter the big boys' club, have f*cked over successive managers in their rush for results without requisite investment, and have shown that we've hit a glass ceiling under them and can go no higher. They don't get a reprieve from me for that.

Thank you for 2001-2010. F*ck you for 2010-2015. Take your profit, and leave knowing that you took us as far as we could go: using our money, of course, but you did it. That's all.

Anyway, I'm trying to draw down my ENIC posts in this festive season. It's the season of cheer, after all, and I'd like to keep things cheery. If you do wish to continue the conversation, please PM me: otherwise, I'd rather just shut up about it for now.

Edit: and as for Levy not identifying targets, I sincerely, sincerely, sincerely doubt Harry particularly wanted either Ryan William Nelsen or Louis Laurent Saha in 2012.
 
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We are judging them on limited information. This, I entirely agree with. However, I personally don't see much point in supporting them when they have been proven to have made bad decisions.

Look, it is about the ownership model: it cannot be divorced from any discussion of Levy/ENIC, and trust me, I've tried to, because it makes me somewhat miffed just thinking about it. Levy and ENIC deserve our support when they make good decisions. Levy and ENIC do not deserve our support when they make bad decisions. There is no ground where fans have a reason to continue to support them even when they make bad decisions: that luxury is only given to owners who put significant amounts of their money into the clubs that they own, since it gives fans the feeling that their owner is invested in the club, and thus deserves some slack.

Our owners derive their legitimacy purely from their ability to make good decisions: there is almost nothing else they offer to us, apart from that: and from their side, we're nothing more than an enormously profitable, almost no-risk investment, nothing more. This is the reality.

So, what logical reason can we have to Figbird them their bad decisions, when they have been proven to have made them? The relationship is clearly flimsy. They have constructed this club on the idea that it can run perfectly well without any input from them: and they've succeeded in doing that, and for that they deserve credit. But by doing so, they've also obviated the need for them to be around, and have clearly taken us as far as we can go using this model: and since they don't intend to put much more of their own money into the club, the best I can expect from them is that they make half-decent decisions from now up until the stadium's finished, sell up, take their enormous profit and go.

The way they have run this club since we hit the heights in 09/10 has been eye-opening: in my eyes, they have blown a golden chance for us to enter the big boys' club, have f*cked over successive managers in their rush for results without requisite investment, and have shown that we've hit a glass ceiling under them and can go no higher. They don't get a reprieve from me for that.

Thank you for 2001-2010. F*ck you for 2010-2015. Take your profit, and leave knowing that you took us as far as we could go: using our money, of course, but you did it. That's all.

Anyway, I'm trying to draw down my ENIC posts in this festive season. It's the season of cheer, after all, and I'd like to keep things cheery. If you do wish to continue the conversation, please PM me: otherwise, I'd rather just shut up about it for now.

Edit: and as for Levy not identifying targets, I sincerely, sincerely, sincerely doubt Harry particularly wanted either Ryan William Nelsen or Louis Laurent Saha in 2012.

Redknapp himself said he'd wanted to sign Nelsen for years and also took him to QPR. He also spoke very highly of Saha.

They were Redknapp s picks of that I am sure, but in the context that he probably went to Levy asking for Cahill, Samba and Tevez and didn't get them therefore they were cover targets done on deadline day.

Again the context of Redknapp asking for the players he did was that we were run away 3rd at the time with a massive squad full of players Redknapp himself bought and sold to Levy as being good enough for Spurs like Pienaar, Corluka, Kranjcar, Defoe that weren't getting much game time. Redknapp sanctioned the sale of Pavlyuchenko that January also. Bassong another Redknapp signing was sold.

It also looked doubtful firstly for legal reasons then in terms of England that Redknapp would be our manager for much longer. Therefore I fully agree with Levy's decision not to sanction the primary purchases requested by Redknapp. He had the biggest squad with the highest wages we've ever had. He had the tools to finish the job and he didn't. That's not Levy or ENIC's fault.
 
Anyway, I'm trying to draw down my ENIC posts in this festive season. It's the season of cheer, after all, and I'd like to keep things cheery. If you do wish to continue the conversation, please PM me: otherwise, I'd rather just shut up about it for now.

Thank the baby zombie Jesus for that!!!

Have some Berbatov at christmas

sport-graphics-2007_714969a.jpg
 
Just caught a bit of Steed Malbranque there too. And it made me ever happier :) I loved that team.

Things just seemed simpler then. Magnificent double of Keane and Berbatov up front, ball sent up, gloriously brought down, one-two, goal. Bish, bash, bosh, fun times all around and no need for grating discussions about inside forwards taking up their space or Levy's general clamishness. :p

I hope we get to see a partnership like that again someday. Plus Steed, of course. :)
 
Things just seemed simpler then. Magnificent double of Keane and Berbatov up front, ball sent up, gloriously brought down, one-two, goal. Bish, bash, bosh, fun times all around and no need for grating discussions about inside forwards taking up their space or Levy's general clamishness. :p

I hope we get to see a partnership like that again someday. Plus Steed, of course. :)

Our midfield was pretty dreadful then. Remember Jenas and Zokora was our CM.

Our two forwards + King-Dawson at the back carried us, whereas now we are much more of a rounded team.
 
Our midfield was pretty dreadful then. Remember Jenas and Zokora was our CM.

Our two forwards + King-Dawson at the back carried us, whereas now we are much more of a rounded team.

Jenas and Zokora weren't dreadful, they just weren't top quality. But they were hard-working and kept things simple and kept things moving forward.
 
Jenas and Zokora weren't dreadful, they just weren't top quality. But they were hard-working and kept things simple and kept things moving forward.

i'd say at least above average, but they did their job of freeing up two strikers to focus just on scoring. i think jenas is underrated by folks here.
 
Bit rose tinted there. Jenas and Zokora were facking awful. If only we'd got Modders in a couple of seasons earlier. And the fact we let Carrick go with barely a whimper still brings me to tears. We should've moved heaven and earth to keep him at Spurs.
 
Carrick had one year left on his contract iirc - hands were tied really. Learned from him and Berbatov though i guess you could say
 
Our midfield was pretty dreadful then. Remember Jenas and Zokora was our CM.

Our two forwards + King-Dawson at the back carried us, whereas now we are much more of a rounded team.

I know, and I agree that our midfield was generally ****e, not to mention our full-back woes. But I have this gnawing feeling that people right now would give a bit of our all-round superiority to the team of 07-08 for the extra goals, skills and good times a strike partnership like Keane-Berbatov would provide. It was generally always exciting to watch those two interacting on the field and scoring bucketloads: now watching our lads seems to be a more tactical affair, analysing the relative margins between us and the opposition and looking for the side to eke out whatever advantages we can attain.

Back then, we were alarmingly imbalanced, but it somehow seemed to matter less because of the world-class partnerships we had up front and (to an extent) at the back: now we're balanced, but have sacrificed a lot of individual brilliance to attain this status. And that's made things just a mite less...well, jolly than they otherwise would have been, I feel.

I'm not sure I'm putting myself across particularly well. Perhaps it's just nostalgia.
 
Bit rose tinted there. Jenas and Zokora were facking awful. If only we'd got Modders in a couple of seasons earlier. And the fact we let Carrick go with barely a whimper still brings me to tears. We should've moved heaven and earth to keep him at Spurs.

they did a job - we did concede but we also scored ****loads
 
I know, and I agree that our midfield was generally ****e, not to mention our full-back woes. But I have this gnawing feeling that people right now would give a bit of our all-round superiority to the team of 07-08 for the extra goals, skills and good times a strike partnership like Keane-Berbatov would provide. It was generally always exciting to watch those two interacting on the field and scoring bucketloads: now watching our lads seems to be a more tactical affair, analysing the relative margins between us and the opposition and looking for the side to eke out whatever advantages we can attain.

Back then, we were alarmingly imbalanced, but it somehow seemed to matter less because of the world-class partnerships we had up front and (to an extent) at the back: now we're balanced, but have sacrificed a lot of individual brilliance to attain this status. And that's made things just a mite less...well, jolly than they otherwise would have been, I feel.

I'm not sure I'm putting myself across particularly well. Perhaps it's just nostalgia.

You're forgetting all the days the real Berba didnt turn up and the rest of the team fell apart without him.
 
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