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ENIC

Raziel said:
Poch hit his peak with us, that's the biggest issue with any argument that moving on from Poch was a poor decision (the fudging guy is managing the US national team now)

Jol -> Harry -> Poch are all steps up, so again, even in hindsight, right decisions

To your top 5 fudgeups, really that is the best someone could come up with
1. Too little too late in transfer market? as discussed widely in the last page on this thread alone, we were struggling through a massive capital investment in the stadium build, again, post fact the stadium build is the best thing to happen to this club and United/Chelsea/Pool would all want to be in our position now
2. Replacing Poch with Jose? probably but the context there was Covid, the expectation was Jose would have had more investment, in that context it looks different
3. Furlough, fudge, tell me someone is a fudging child without telling me someone is a child. A government program designed to do exactly what the club (one of the biggest tax payers in the league) used it for. Where were you/everyone else in protesting the banks/other businesses from using it? (this is a absolute failure to understand it's actually Levy's duty to the club to use these mechanisms)
4. Super League, like #4, this is typical English stupidity, Spurs had no choice, if a super league happened and we weren't part of it, it would have doomed us from ever participating at an elite level. And outside of the concerns re qualification Super league is superior to the flimflam the FA/UEFA put on the table in many ways (wage caps, infrastructure investment support, etc.), but hey Sky/BT/FA wound you up to protect their investment under some flimflam pretense of "for the betterment of the game"
5. Firing Jose a week before? sure, timing was off

And lets end with the flimflam "time is up" help me understand?

- Are you going to fire him, someone else on this forum/reddit/twitter?
- Is the media going to fire him?
- Help me understand who has the power and genuinely believes Levy's time is up?

By the way, I could make a list of mistakes for Levy/ENIC but none of it matters, this is about as useful as me disliking the pumpkin latte at Starbucks and saying the CEO's time is up .. it's utter delusion. Take a look at the Glazer at United, absolutely destroying the club milking it for money, creating a huge debt burden, having huge organized protests against them for years ... nothing, fans have very little power ..
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I think you've taken this the wrong direction. Replacing Levy is not the direction most fans come at it from. We just root cause some of the woes of the last 25 years back to his football operations leadership. Deep down, I think he knew that he didn't have the football DNA in his gut to be making those decisions but still made them. 2 and 5 are football ops decisions. 3 and 4 are in Levy's domain as a chairman. Problem is, he made 2 and 5 himself. He's NOT qualified to make those decisions.

As for 1, my point above was just make the right comms. We were all behind him on what he was trying to achieve. Him making those statements about the stadium and football sides being mutually exclusive financially was just stupid leadership. He should have known better.

As for 5, Levy got this one way wrong. If he spent so much time at the training ground, he should have known there were problems. That toxic prick should have had his sorry arse kicked out of our club way before the cup final that he would have lost anyway.
 
Muttley said:
As for 1, my point above was just make the right comms. We were all behind him on what he was trying to achieve. Him making those statements about the stadium and football sides being mutually exclusive financially was just stupid leadership. He should have known better.
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I think what he said has been misrepresented a bit. I don't believe he ever gave an iron clad guarantee that transfer funds would be unaffected by the build.

The is from THST meeting notes that I posted a few years ago :
"The impact of the stadium project on future transfer budgets was raised. A certain percentage would be ring fenced and impact would be minimised as far as possible"
https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thstthfc-board-to-board-meeting-minutes-30-march-2015

And
"KS asked if the stadium build was expected to impact on transfer funds. DL said that transfer funds were still ring-fenced and there would remain a focus on strong performances on the pitch. We would, however, need to be pragmatic and realistic. That said, on pitch performance underpinned everything and would be a priority"
https://www.thstofficial.com/thst-news/thst-thfc-board-to-board-meeting-minutes-29-september-2015

( I don't think the links work anymore as the Trust have taken down old postings).
 
Muttley said:
Levy must know deep down the full supply chain that props him up. It is the fans that buy the Sky packages, the season tickets, the merchandise and ultimately it is the fans that have turned him from a millionaire into a billionaires. In life there needs to be a quid-pro-quo. For me, I have no problem if he becomes a billionaire off the back of me paying out my hard earned money. The system only doesn't work if he doesn't bring me trophies. After all, I'm the customer.

What you say is scarily true. In his comms over the years, he's often forgotten who the actual customer is that buys his product. Some of the things he's said at the Trust meeting would have got me to throw him out of the nearest window.

It is also one of the big reasons why he needed to move out of football operations. He was just not that good at it. He's always lacked pure football DNA, but became quite dangerous because he didn't realise it wasn't in his blood. The signs were always there and he made POOR football decisions year after year.

I'd still have him though. I think the other stuff he has done for the club is fantastic. He has us well set for a great future. I just don't want him anywhere near football operations. Despite his failings as a leader, I do want him to get the trophies he's worked a lifetime for.
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ITK? You talk as if you have intimate knowledge of what happens behind the scenes?
 
Lilbaz said:
ITK? You talk as if you have intimate knowledge of what happens behind the scenes?
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Probably like most people, I've had a couple of inside tracks into the man himself but never directly. One friend had a direct conversation with him in a business meeting and what Levy said about a football context proved to be him talking utter nonsense. It was about the longevity of one of our favourite players, and Levy got it so badly wrong. We still laugh about it today.

I also have a much younger cousin who worked for Tracey Levy in the past in the admin team. LOL - I probably shouldn't go there. Her stories weren't as favourable as my other cousin who was on Spurs books from 8 to 15. He loved everything about the experience of being in the academy. Used to talk about meeting Bill Nich on the training ground. Nothing more special for a kid that age at the time. It was a deifferent era though as we're in our 50's now.

I did hear from someone that I know that is genuinely connected to the club that the statements Levy made about what we talked above weren't totally appreciated by the rest of the good people at the club. Whilst it was second hand info, I totally believe him as he's been so spot on about so much other stuff club related.

Anyway, there will will be many more people on GG that have real inside tracks. I'm on the outside. I will stress though, I am always behind Levy even if I give a couple of perceptions about his leadership.

How about you? Any cool connections to THFC?
 
People talk about the clubs DNA being broken but its been broken alot longer than the 25 years Enic have been here. For me the failure to convert more in the mid to late 80s followed by the break up for the club financially into the 90s was the start of the end. Controversy after controversy off the pitch, club being used as a bank with offshore accounts in Jersey, Gazza single won us the FA Cup near single handed under the cloud of everyone knowing he was off to pay of debts and the ground development, any other year without a player of his class we don't win it. That followed by more off the field wrangles between Sugar and Venables that saw us, through bad decisions and financial restrictions fall way off the pace.

When the benchmark for staying in the PL was 40 points, we finished 4 season on 44, 45, 46 and 47, all this whilst United and Arsenal in particularly sped off into the distance. We were ridiculed in this time, I enjoyed the period as I went home and away, but it was basically a case of sheer hope at times that we would not get our arses spanked by literally anyone (me and my old man did Coventry a couple of times when they handed it to us)

The league cup win following the last FA Cup win does not mean a maintenance of some winning DNA win just because in those 10 years we had 2 trophies. The truth is any DNA left over from the 80s was killed in this 10 years. Thats why Teddy left, thats why Klinsmann left, thats why Sol left.

The idea that Levy and Co have stripped back some dynasty or winners DNA is frankly a load of rubbish, they spent the first 10 years unpicking the mess of the previous and we have done very well in the fact that we can now consider Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Chelsea our rivals because they certainly wasn't when I was going home and away in my supporting pomp.

1729868544376.png

Levy and Enic have been far from perfect, made mistakes, missed opportunities and other stuff thats well documented. The blame for the weak underbelly and that all DNA and stuff coming from the top down is an ENic invention, thats abit tosh for me
 
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Muttley said:
Probably like most people, I've had a couple of inside tracks into the man himself but never directly. One friend had a direct conversation with him in a business meeting and what Levy said about a football context proved to be him talking utter nonsense. It was about the longevity of one of our favourite players, and Levy got it so badly wrong. We still laugh about it today.

I also have a much younger cousin who worked for Tracey Levy in the past in the admin team. LOL - I probably shouldn't go there. Her stories weren't as favourable as my other cousin who was on Spurs books from 8 to 15. He loved everything about the experience of being in the academy. Used to talk about meeting Bill Nich on the training ground. Nothing more special for a kid that age at the time. It was a deifferent era though as we're in our 50's now.

I did hear from someone that I know that is genuinely connected to the club that the statements Levy made about what we talked above weren't totally appreciated by the rest of the good people at the club. Whilst it was second hand info, I totally believe him as he's been so spot on about so much other stuff club related.

Anyway, there will will be many more people on GG that have real inside tracks. I'm on the outside. I will stress though, I am always behind Levy even if I give a couple of perceptions about his leadership.

How about you? Any cool connections to THFC?
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None at all.
 
Grays_1890 said:
People talk about the clubs DNA being broken but its been broken alot longer than the 25 years Enic have been here. For me the failure to convert more in the mid to late 80s followed by the break up for the club financially into the 90s was the start of the end. Controversy after controversy off the pitch, club being used as a bank with offshore accounts in Jersey, Gazza single won us the FA Cup near single handed under the cloud of everyone knowing he was off to pay of debts and the ground development, any other year without a player of his class we don't win it. That followed by more of the field wrangles between Sugar and Venables that saw us, through bad decisions and financial restrictions fall way off the pace.

When the benchmark for staying in the PL was 40 points, we finished 4 season on 44, 45, 46 and 47, all this whilst United and Arsenal in particularly sped off into the distance. We were ridiculed in this time, I enjoyed the period as I went home and away, but it was basically a case of sheer hope at times that we would not get our arses spanked by literally anyone (me and my old man did Coventry a couple of times when they handed it to us)

The league cup win following the last FA Cup win does not mean a maintenance of some winning DNA win just because in those 10 years we had 2 trophies. The truth is any DNA left over form the 80s was killed in this 10 years. Thats why Teddy left, thats why Klinsmann left, thats why Sol left.

The idea that Levy and Co have stripped back some dynasty or winners DNA is frankly a load of rubbish, they spent the first 10 years unpicking the mess of the previous and we have done very well in the fact that we can now consider Arsenal, United, Liverpool and Chelsea our rivals because they certainly wasn't when I was going home and away in my supporting pomp.

View attachment 17889

Levy and Enic have been far from perfect, made mistakes, missed opportunities and other stuff thats well documented. The blame for the weak underbelly and that all DNA and stuff coming from the top down and is an ENic invention, thats abit tosh for me
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I'm not sure if you were quoting me or not, but when I used the acronym DNA it was only in the context of Levy himself. I wasn't talking about the club's DNA. I was talking about whether Levy has really got football in his natural DNA. It's a real luxury nowadays to have a football chairman that can sit down and talk football. It becomes dangerous when chairmen think they can, and make football decisions.

When you forget for a moment that Levy is THFC's chairman and major financial stakeholder in the club, would you really trust this guy to hire managers? Would you even care for his opinion on the subject? I'm not sure I would, even though I massively respect him as a business CEO of THFC.

It took a long time, but I think he realised in the end that he just didn't have the tools to run football operations. Such a shame that Trevor Birch come and went so quickly. He would have been perfect for Levy. I hope Scott Munn is.
 
Muttley said:
I'm not sure if you were quoting me or not, but when I used the acronym DNA it was only in the context of Levy himself. I wasn't talking about the club's DNA. I was talking about whether Levy has really got football in his natural DNA. It's a real luxury nowadays to have a football chairman that can sit down and talk football. It becomes dangerous when chairmen think they can, and make football decisions.

When you forget for a moment that Levy is THFC's chairman and major financial stakeholder in the club, would you really trust this guy to hire managers? Would you even care for his opinion on the subject? I'm not sure I would, even though I massively respect him as a business CEO of THFC.

It took a long time, but I think he realised in the end that he just didn't have the tools to run football operations. Such a shame that Trevor Birch come and went so quickly. He would have been perfect for Levy. I hope Scott Munn is.
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You realise he's the one that introduced the dof system into english football?
 
Lets talk football DNA. Levy has been working in football for 30 years (before spurs). Longest chairman in the uk. If not the world. According to the athletic podcast the other day, he'll leave spurs in a coffin. Even if we sell stakes.

He's bet his life, career and family fortune on spurs. Where he could have made more money from other investments (autonomy).

We haven't won as many trophies as we'd have liked. Or had the investment of other clubs.

But i still don't see how he's done a bad job with the resources he had. Ok you might disagree with the new stadium. Or sackings or hitchen or whatever. But not sure how that equates to dna?

We've had the likes of paul barber on our board in the past. No idea who is on the board now apart from munn and cullen.
 
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Þ
Muttley said:
I'm not sure if you were quoting me or not, but when I used the acronym DNA it was only in the context of Levy himself. I wasn't talking about the club's DNA. I was talking about whether Levy has really got football in his natural DNA. It's a real luxury nowadays to have a football chairman that can sit down and talk football. It becomes dangerous when chairmen think they can, and make football decisions.

When you forget for a moment that Levy is THFC's chairman and major financial stakeholder in the club, would you really trust this guy to hire managers? Would you even care for his opinion on the subject? I'm not sure I would, even though I massively respect him as a business CEO of THFC.

It took a long time, but I think he realised in the end that he just didn't have the tools to run football operations. Such a shame that Trevor Birch come and went so quickly. He would have been perfect for Levy. I hope Scott Munn is.
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No wasn't aimed at you mate. I see the term used alot, change DNA to culture where appropriate. Like I say Levy gets things wrong as does any chairman/owner in the game, I just don't believe he is as sole responsible for failures like others might think.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Þ

No wasn't aimed at you mate. I see the term used alot, change DNA to culture where appropriate. Like I say Levy gets things wrong as does any chairman/owner in the game, I just don't believe he is as sole responsible for failures like others might think.
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He is ifs it’s bad
If it’s good it’s someone else’s fault
 
Baleforce said:
I don’t believe there is such thing as football DNA, the industry evolves continuously, if the Wale’s and the Richardson’s were still in charge would we be better off?
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Absolutely this, just how it is. Even United were impacted by the oil and state money power plays and couldn't keep up and they have one of the bigger dynasty histories in British and world football.
 
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