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ENIC

not with Suarez but remember the Modric and Berbatov situation, they effectively went on strike, its better to get rid of them at that point than risk them poisoning the dressing room.
 
galeforce said:
not with Suarez but remember the Modric and Berbatov situation, they effectively went on strike, its better to get rid of them at that point than risk them poisoning the dressing room.
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the trouble is there's little else to compare to - I can't think of a side outside of the Champions League placings in this country who have had such a turnover of great players in such a short time, meaning there's such interest in signing them.

i think Berbatov set the tone for Levy from then on - we were caught between a rock and a hard place - sell a disgruntled player for 30 mil now or risk seeing that value halve the following summer where he would have had only a year remaining on his contract.

since then it has been long contracts for players so we cover ourselves for all eventualities. we forced Modric to stay another year and my guessing would be had we not fallen apart in the second half of the following season we would probably have had him here another year at least. Bale was a truly unique situation - a world record transfer fee how can we argue against that deal when the biggest club in the world couldn't turn down a similar fee for Ronaldo?

Im pretty certain we'll rebuff all advances for our players this summer, unless WE want to sell/replace - they're all on long contracts and i can't imagine them attracting interest from the elite just yet.
 
galeforce said:
not with Suarez but remember the Modric and Berbatov situation, they effectively went on strike, its better to get rid of them at that point than risk them poisoning the dressing room.
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I genuinely don't think it always is, we've never weathered the storm to see what came out the other side. Suarez didn't officially go on strike, but he kicked up one hell of a fuss and may well have gone on strike had he not been suspended for the first few games anyway.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
I genuinely don't think it always is, we've never weathered the storm to see what came out the other side. Suarez didn't officially go on strike, but he kicked up one hell of a fuss and may well have gone on strike had he not been suspended for the first few games anyway.
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Modric?

as i said in the post above Bale was a truly unique situation and Berbatov probably caught us unawares with his contract running down and the lengths he went to kicking up a fuss. we stuck to our guns with Modric and i think the way he continued to perform the following season will show Levy that players on long contracts made to stay will perform under the circumstances. we'll see what happens in the summer but right now i think, using the Modric situation as the test case, we son't see any departures.
 
people want to know where they stand, it affects the other players, remember what a shambles we were in the games before we sold Modric
 
In evaluating Enic/Levy's performance, the transfer spending since 2003 is interesting: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/data/team/team-53.htm

Look how far we are behind Liverpool. We are also behind Villa and not that far ahead of Stoke and Sunderland.

As for managers, Ramos is the only one who was backed substantially: http://www.transferleague.co.uk/data/team/team-56.htm
__________________Spend__________Sales_________Net____________Average___
Juande Ramos _____ (Oct 07/ Oct 08) ________ £135,900,000 ___£82,500,000____£53,400,000 ___ £53,400,000
Martin Jol __________(04/05 - oct 07/08) ____ £99,800,000 ____£53,250,000 ___£46,550,000 ___ £13,300,000
Harry Redknapp ____ (08/09 - 11/12) _______ £207,200,000 ___£199,550,000 ___£7,650,000 ____ £1,912,500
Andre Villas Boas ___ (12/13 to Dec 1 _______ £165,200,000 ___£170,300,000 ___-£5,100,000 ____-£5,100,000
Tim Sherwood _____ (Dec 2013 to Date ______ £0___________ £0 ____________ £0______________ £0
 
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billyiddo said:
Modric?

as i said in the post above Bale was a truly unique situation and Berbatov probably caught us unawares with his contract running down and the lengths he went to kicking up a fuss. we stuck to our guns with Modric and i think the way he continued to perform the following season will show Levy that players on long contracts made to stay will perform under the circumstances. we'll see what happens in the summer but right now i think, using the Modric situation as the test case, we son't see any departures.
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Hopefully you're right!
 
The average league position in the 12 years (2001-2013) under ENIC is 7th; the average position under the previous ownership (Sugar 1991 - 2001) was 11th so there is an obvious improvement.

Levy for me has 2 massive flaws; firstly his vision of how the football side of the club should operate (do I want a DofF or not this week) and subsequent selection of managers is appalling.

Secondly he see's players as commodities he can make a profit on; to consider a resale value for a player when signing them makes blinding sense but it seems that we sign players purely for the intention of being able to sell them on at a profit (and if they actually make an impact in the 1st team then it's a bonus) e.g. Holtby, Pienaar, Capoue, Dempsey, Chadli etc. This means that on several occasions we have stock piled players which can't be a good thing if the poor sod of a manager is trying to find an established team.
 
GPRD81 said:
The average league position in the 12 years (2001-2013) under ENIC is 7th; the average position under the previous ownership (Sugar 1991 - 2001) was 11th so there is an obvious improvement.

Levy for me has 2 massive flaws; firstly his vision of how the football side of the club should operate (do I want a DofF or not this week) and subsequent selection of managers is appalling.

Secondly he see's players as commodities he can make a profit on; to consider a resale value for a player when signing them makes blinding sense but it seems that we sign players purely for the intention of being able to sell them on at a profit (and if they actually make an impact in the 1st team then it's a bonus) e.g. Holtby, Pienaar, Capoue, Dempsey, Chadli etc. This means that on several occasions we have stock piled players which can't be a good thing if the poor sod of a manager is trying to find an established team.
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Good analysis.

A director of football can work, but it inevitably always leads to problems AT OUR CLUB. Managers being given players they didn't ask for.

He rarely gets the managerial appointments correct, or he sacks the good ones too early anyway.

I fully understand why we sold Bale, it was an obscene amount of money. However, just think how good we would/could have been had he stayed, yeah I know he wanted to leave but he would have knuckled down after the window closed as it would have been in his best interest. In that instance, I'm not complaining about Levy cashing in, but it always seems to end the same way i.e. Levy says we're not selling, the player goes on striker and he eventually gets his way. King was the only player we've managed to keep, and I'm sure he would have gone had he not been so injury prone.
 
GPRD81 said:
The average league position in the 12 years (2001-2013) under ENIC is 7th; the average position under the previous ownership (Sugar 1991 - 2001) was 11th so there is an obvious improvement.

Levy for me has 2 massive flaws; firstly his vision of how the football side of the club should operate (do I want a DofF or not this week) and subsequent selection of managers is appalling.

Secondly he see's players as commodities he can make a profit on; to consider a resale value for a player when signing them makes blinding sense but it seems that we sign players purely for the intention of being able to sell them on at a profit (and if they actually make an impact in the 1st team then it's a bonus) e.g. Holtby, Pienaar, Capoue, Dempsey, Chadli etc. This means that on several occasions we have stock piled players which can't be a good thing if the poor sod of a manager is trying to find an established team.
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I think it seems pretty clear that Levy prefers working with a DoF. After Arnesen was hired the only extended period we've been clearly without a DoF were the Redknapp years. AVB was hired as a head coach, about as strong a signal that a DoF like role was always going to be filled. That's hardly changing your mind every week, and furthermore I actually think it shows flexibility rather than indecision. It seems obvious to me that both a DoF and a "lone manager" system can work, Redknapp was identified as the best available manager option after Ramos and Redknapp wouldn't work under a DoF so Levy decided that getting Redknapp in was more valuable than the benefit of having a DoF perhaps?

In terms of commodities to make a profit, yes. With the fairly strong correlation between turnover and league position seen in the PL and most leagues it's only sensible to look for the best possible deals. Some of the deals you've mentioned didn't work out, some of them did alright actually. At least I thought Dempsey did quite well for us and was important that season and the jury is still out on Holtby, Capoue and Chadli. There are many players available when we look for the next deal and all of them will have a risk attached. Going for players that are "undervalued" because of their contract situation seem like the smart choice.

I guess you didn't mention players like Vertonghen, Lloris, Kranjcar and Sandro (just to mention a few), but all of those had price tags comparable to several of the players you mentioned and I believe all of them were similarly "undervalued" like the players you mentioned because of contract issues, wanting out etc. Naming the players that you think didn't work out in the "looking for a deal" category whilst the ones that worked out are the "manager's/DoF's choice" seems based on hindsight more than anything. Furthermore most clubs I think we can compare ourselves to similarly look for those good deals when possible. It makes sense.
 
A DOF of football is purely there as another defence between the angry fans and the owners. Saudi Sportswashing Machine this past window sums it up. Club sells there best player.. Fans angry.. DOF is the sacrificial lamb.
 
Superhudd said:
A DOF of football is purely there as another defence between the angry fans and the owners. Saudi Sportswashing Machine this past window sums it up. Club sells there best player.. Fans angry.. DOF is the sacrificial lamb.
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I disagree. Most teams have someone between the manager and Chairman because there is too much for one man to do and managers are notoriously short term in their outlook which is an expensive way of running a football club.
 
Superhudd said:
A DOF of football is purely there as another defence between the angry fans and the owners. Saudi Sportswashing Machine this past window sums it up. Club sells there best player.. Fans angry.. DOF is the sacrificial lamb.
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Do you think the same about continental clubs, or is this just your opinion on English clubs with a DoF?

I'm sure Saudi Sportswashing Machine fans aren't ****ed at Ashley at all anymore.

If anything the Saudi Sportswashing Machine situation illustrates just how much an owner can actually get away with without the need for a middle man to blame.
 
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