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Emmanuel Adebayor - Officially gone \o/

This is interesting.

I think it basically shows that the player that is playing AMC is not doing a good enough job breaking into the box. Chadli is doing a good job but he's usually doing it playing in the wide position but the central player (usually Eriksen this season) has to do more to get into the box. When Ade comes deep..Eriksen's instinct has to be to attack the box immediately but we're not seeing that a lot yet

This article also shows that Kane should be very good in that role if given a proper chance.
I think that more than anything we need to give it time to bed in. A system like this relies on players being familiar with each others' game. Unless some makes an exceptional case for being included or a player is dramatically out of form, chopping and changing personnel is only going to slow this down.
 
i said this in the Chadli thread but i think it's probably more apt in here - i think we're getting the balance wrong atm - Adebayor plays on the wing so much that he isn't dragging the CBs out of position, they just leave him to the wide players to look after - in order for him to create space for the AMs he needs to be less predictable in his movement - at the moment Lamela Eriksen and Chadli appear to be doing a good job of mixing it up in terms of where they are likely to get on the ball and the runs that they make, so if Adebayor gave the CBs more to think about then we'd really cause teams problems
 
i said this in the Chadli thread but i think it's probably more apt in here - i think we're getting the balance wrong atm - Adebayor plays on the wing so much that he isn't dragging the CBs out of position, they just leave him to the wide players to look after - in order for him to create space for the AMs he needs to be less predictable in his movement
I agree that he needs to mix it up more.
 
I think Scara has already de-bunked the whole assist of the assister malarkey.

I'm not sure if your serious? Assist of assister is a pretty well universally accepted in football..... I could go on but you were probably being sarcastic and I'm falling for it.
 
1-0 vs QPR:

QPR_1_0.jpg


4-0 vs QPR:

QPR_4_0.jpg


1-0 vs Sunderland:

Sunderland_1_0.jpg


2-1 vs Sunderland:

Sunderland_2_1.jpg

Thanks for posting that, maybe people with the use of the visual aids you posted will be fairer in their critique of Ade......

So now guys thanks to Jord we now have visual proof of Ade's key contribution to over half of our goals.... 5 out of 9 goals. 55% of our goals.

Second most productive played this season after Chadli?

Discuss.
 
You obviously (I assume intentionally) misinterpreted my preceding post. If a player is heavily marked then that makes space for others - usually including some for the man with the ball. Despite Chadli's great escape, passing to him (and specifically inaccurately) was the worst option. Actually that's not true - Ade's usual spazzing it at the corner flag was a worse option.

Wasn't intentional, your post stated 'doesn't that mean that we must have had at least 3 unmarked, outfield players?' To me, that suggested that you thought that Adebayor must have had 3 unmarked players to pass to. I looked at the goal to be sure I was correct and then pointed out that he didn't and in fact he only really had two options.

Myself and Finney have both offered up rational for our opinions and given fairly detailed reasoning behind them. So far you haven't offered any reasoning for yours. All you've done is make daft comments like the one above.


Quite simple really, you place and weigh your pass so that the ball and the player's foot arrive in the same place at the same time. Preferably without the player having to slow down, stretch, turn, etc.

So, like I said, you think he wanted the ball played in front of him. Look at the below clip, had the ball been played in front of him (putting aside the fact that it would have been a much more difficult pass to make due to the positioning of the Southampton defenders) he would have been running at an angle away from goal to the by-line. So, please do offer up some kind of sensible rational as to why you think that was the better option? If Chadli wants the ball in front of him, why does he hold his run, turn his body towards Ade and motion for him to pass it to his feet?
TerrificUnnaturalKoala.gif




How does it stack up against the suggestion that only people who've played a lot of football (without any knowledge whatsoever about how much football others have played) can understand it properly?

Hense the reason why I pre-fixed my sentence with 'Not to say that you absolutely have to have played football to be knowledgeable about it'. Your explaination of your undestanding of the situation that led up to the goal suggests to me that you haven't played much football. If you had, you'd understand why Chadli held his run, why Eriksen made the run off Chadli's movement and that the ball Ade played was a decent ball. Still doesn't mean you know nothing about football (believe it or not I actually agree with you on a handful of things).


I've had a lot of people perform a lot of jobs for me in my career, some of them for large chunks of their working lives. Not one of them yet has had an understanding of their role in the way I do, despite me never having held any of those positions.

Your understanding of their role is based on the fact they are performing jobs for you, so you have experience and understanding of what you want them to do. Similar to how someone who has played football to a decent level has a better understanding of what Ade, Chadli and Eiksen were trying to do than someone who has not ;)

I don't think my opinion is at all snobbish. Elitist? Probably. Not snobbish though.

Anyway, that all gone waaay past the limit of my (admittedly small) attention span. So let's just settle on the fact that even if we're really generous and count all the goals scored despite of Ade, his contribution is still falling a very, very long way short of what someone on his wages should be providing.

Yep, I'm bored too. I agree his contribution is falling short mainly because he hasn't scored enough goals and I think Harry Kane probably deserves some kind of chance. His contribution to this goal however, was perfectly acceptable, but you'll never see that so it's a waste of time trying to have a decent discussion with you.
 
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well i guess the argument would be that as the single player leading the line he should be involved in most of our attacking play and also we haven't exactly scored a great number of goals so far this season. so chuck in some goals scored and some direct assists to the total so far and then we'd see the type of return which people expect from a front man.
 
Thanks for posting that, maybe people with the use of the visual aids you posted will be fairer in their critique of Ade......

So now guys thanks to Jord we now have visual proof of Ade's key contribution to over half of our goals.... 5 out of 9 goals. 55% of our goals.

Second most productive played this season after Chadli?

Discuss.

Why the reliance on stats? Watching our games this season is sufficient enough surely. Statistics should never be used as an absolute and decisive tool as they are incapable of detailing the whole story, and more often than not they can be manipulated to argue a point, as is such here. Of course they do go some way to substantiating a point this way or that, and of course I use them too to argue my opinion on a occasions to a point, but for the most part your own knowledge and understanding of the game through watching games live yourself should be adequate enough, and imo are far greater tools to make use of when analysing a player’s form than some figures on a piece of paper.

For me, anyone exaggerating Adebayor’s performances this season are just as bad as the people being overly critical. He has been below average this season, Adebayor would assuredly be the first to admit this, but by the sounds of things on here (5 key contributions, 2 assists, 1 goal and a magnanimous display of selflessness in his positioning) it sounds as though some may feel we have an early contender for player of the season on our hands.
 
This is interesting.

I think it basically shows that the player that is playing AMC is not doing a good enough job breaking into the box. Chadli is doing a good job but he's usually doing it playing in the wide position but the central player (usually Eriksen this season) has to do more to get into the box. When Ade comes deep..Eriksen's instinct has to be to attack the box immediately but we're not seeing that a lot yet

This article also shows that Kane should be very good in that role if given a proper chance.

I agree that it is a very interesting article. I wonder from reading it whether Soldado could actually play as the attacking central midfielder. After all being good at lay off passes and wanting to get in the penalty box would seem to be two of the required attributes. Perhaps that would solve the problem of needing Adebayor's ability to run the channels and hold the ball up but also give us the goal threat we need through the centre? Obviously playing this way would put a bit more of a defensive onus on our two wider players in the attacking midfield 3 however.
 
well i guess the argument would be that as the single player leading the line he should be involved in most of our attacking play and also we haven't exactly scored a great number of goals so far this season. so chuck in some goals scored and some direct assists to the total so far and then we'd see the type of return which people expect from a front man.

Exactly.
 
I think even those defending Adebayor would agree we really could do with a better striker than him to play in that role. The problem is simply that we haven't got one and so we're kind of stuck with Adebayor until Jan (or probably more likely the summer).

My issue on this thread in particular was that people were slating Adebayor after a performance where he was one of our better players. I thought Adebayor was awful against Arsenal and not much better against West Brom, but I think some people slate certain players irrespective of their actual performance and, as I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me if some of those who are slaying the player didn't even watch the game.
 
i agree that he played well against Southampton and was surprised to see people think he played poorly - would like to see him have a more direct effect on goal still, but failing that he put in a good shift and worked the channels well.
 
Why the reliance on stats? Watching our games this season is sufficient enough surely. Statistics should never be used as an absolute and decisive tool as they are incapable of detailing the whole story, and more often than not they can be manipulated to argue a point, as is such here. Of course they do go some way to substantiating a point this way or that, and of course I use them too to argue my opinion on a occasions to a point, but for the most part your own knowledge and understanding of the game through watching games live yourself should be adequate enough, and imo are far greater tools to make use of when analysing a player’s form than some figures on a piece of paper.

For me, anyone exaggerating Adebayor’s performances this season are just as bad as the people being overly critical. He has been below average this season, Adebayor would assuredly be the first to admit this, but by the sounds of things on here (5 key contributions, 2 assists, 1 goal and a magnanimous display of selflessness in his positioning) it sounds as though some may feel we have an early contender for player of the season on our hands.

I'm not saying that he is playing great at all, he can play a lot better, as can the whole team. What I don't like is the unfair and unjustified criticism of him, some would have you believe he is has contributed nothing. That's simply not true hense me banging on about the fact that he has had key contributions to over half of our league goals.

That doesn't mean that I think that he is on fire, or he is playing to best of his ability, far from it. But he has been one of the most productive players in terms of contributions to goals... Yet he gets slated constantly where others are not judged by the same criteria. People talk of him being lazy.... Seriously????? Ade may be a lot of things but I really can't see where this lazy tag comes from.

The point made about us not scoring enough... Well yeah OK I agree we are not, but that ain't just down to Ade's performances and contributions. The fact that he has been heavily involved in over half our goals means that he is making a significant contribution to the goals we have scored and maybe we need to look to others to to assess why they have not made a similar contribution, thus helping us score more.

Also do you really believe that if we scored more goals say 13 and Ade's contributions increased in line with this say 7 key contributions people would be fairer with their critique? Im not sure they will
 
I think even those defending Adebayor would agree we really could do with a better striker than him to play in that role. The problem is simply that we haven't got one and so we're kind of stuck with Adebayor until Jan (or probably more likely the summer).

My issue on this thread in particular was that people were slating Adebayor after a performance where he was one of our better players. I thought Adebayor was awful against Arsenal and not much better against West Brom, but I think some people slate certain players irrespective of their actual performance and, as I've said before, it wouldn't surprise me if some of those who are slaying the player didn't even watch the game.

That's fair enough. At least you have acknowledged that he has been poor at times. I didn't see the whole game on Sunday so I can't give a fully accurate take, but from what I did see, he played well.
 
I'm not saying that he is playing great at all, he can play a lot better, as can the whole team. What I don't like is the unfair and unjustified criticism of him, some would have you believe he is has contributed nothing. That's simply not true hense me banging on about the fact that he has had key contributions to over half of our league goals.

That doesn't mean that I think that he is on fire, or he is playing to best of his ability, far from it. But he has been one of the most productive players in terms of contributions to goals... Yet he gets slated constantly where others are not judged by the same criteria. People talk of him being lazy.... Seriously????? Ade may be a lot of things but I really can't see where this lazy tag comes from.

The point made about us not scoring enough... Well yeah OK I agree we are not, but that ain't just down to Ade's performances and contributions. The fact that he has been heavily involved in over half our goals means that he is making a significant contribution to the goals we have scored and maybe we need to look to others to to assess why they have not made a similar contribution, thus helping us score more.

Also do you really believe that if we scored more goals say 13 and Ade's contributions increased in line with this say 7 key contributions people would be fairer with their critique? Im not sure they will

I still think you're exaggerating his output. His involvement in the Southampton goal was playing a simple pass to Chadli, to say he was "heavily involved" is a bit of a reach. Someone could hit a daisy cutter from 30 yards out that the keeper fumbles, whilst a striker is around to mop up the rebound, the player who took the shot could be also described as being involved.

As for the lazy tag, I honestly can't see why people don't see it. I believe had he applied himself fully his entire career, he may have more than the 175 goals he has in his career. He's only managed 20 league goals once in his career and just 4 seasons he has managed to score at a rate of 1 in 2 but some still bang on about him like he's world class. He's only had 1 world class season, and that was for Arsenal in 2007/08, he's lived off that to a certain extent ever since.
 
well i guess the argument would be that as the single player leading the line he should be involved in most of our attacking play and also we haven't exactly scored a great number of goals so far this season. so chuck in some goals scored and some direct assists to the total so far and then we'd see the type of return which people expect from a front man.

Pretty much this. Even if Poch is asking him to drift wide on occasion, I'm sure he expects more goals from him.
 
I still think you're exaggerating his output. His involvement in the Southampton goal was playing a simple pass to Chadli, to say he was "heavily involved" is a bit of a reach. Someone could hit a daisy cutter from 30 yards out that the keeper fumbles, whilst a striker is around to mop up the rebound, the player who took the shot could be also described as being involved.

As for the lazy tag, I honestly can't see why people don't see it. I believe had he applied himself fully his entire career, he may have more than the 175 goals he has in his career. He's only managed 20 league goals once in his career and just 4 seasons he has managed to score at a rate of 1 in 2 but some still bang on about him like he's world class. He's only had 1 world class season, and that was for Arsenal in 2007/08, he's lived off that to a certain extent ever since.

1 in 2 is a very good goal scoring record if you want above that, then we have to start paying Chelsea and city wages and fees, who was the last striker that we had who averaged 1in 2 throughout their career?

Its not just 'simple pass' you can't view it in isolation like that. He has to be in the position to make that 'simple pass' just like others have to be in position to receive it. If it was just that 'simple pass' in isolation then why have not others done it for 55% of of our goals?
 
So lets look at Lambert under Poch last season as a reference:

Played 37, Scored 13, Assisted 11
So pretty much 2 assists or goals every 3 games.

i'm sure poch will know those numbers by heart and will evaluate ade against those.
 
I still think you're exaggerating his output. His involvement in the Southampton goal was playing a simple pass to Chadli, to say he was "heavily involved" is a bit of a reach. Someone could hit a daisy cutter from 30 yards out that the keeper fumbles, whilst a striker is around to mop up the rebound, the player who took the shot could be also described as being involved.

Adebayor's involvement in the goal against Southampton started a little earlier than him playing the pass into Chadli. Again this makes me wonder whether some on here didn't actually see the match - as it was Adebayor's play before the pass that was the more impressive bit and play that I feel neither Soldado or Kane would've given us.
 
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