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Do we deserve success?

K

K.D.D.D.D.Soc

Ian Walker
I have stopped reading or posting in the last few weeks after reading some of the bile pouring out on this site. It's bad enough at the ground listening to the same idiots moaning everytime something goes wrong. Some of our "fans" are far worse than those "we are entitled to" fans of the "Sky Four". Sure I want us to win every game playing well and in the right spirit but I've been going long enough to know it's expecting too much. We all know we need better players but are the right ones ready to join us? If we sack Redknapp will we get better?

It will be disappointing if we don't finish 4th or better but when you've watched a season when Keith Osgood was the best player you can put it all into perspective.

At the end of the day it's a game and meant to be enjoyed, I've found in the last couple of seasons that despite our relative improvement I'm not having so much fun at the games, everything is so intense and the humour is disappearing from the crowd. I don't buy into the Shankly crap it's up there with "Greed is good" and "there's no such thing as society"

Have we just become like the rest of "premier league" football fans and lost the plot, if we have do we deserve anything better?
 
No. Nobody deserves to be successful.


I've not really seen anyone on here saying we are 'entitled' to top four, just that we should be finishing top four with our squad. Completely different things.
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling this... the euphoric feeling of victory is being far outweighed by the 'annoyance' of defeat... it's a bit like having now tasted the Top 4, a home win is greeted with a 'yeah-yeah whatever, we won, onto the next game' which, if you're talking winners mentality, there's nothing wrong with... but as far as expectation and atmosphere, and the FEELING of winning a game gives you, it now feels like it's only winning the 'Traditional Big games' and ones towards the end of the season that REALLY feel like ALL wins used to for me!

Maybe the element of surprise that we can actually win a game gets chipped away, the better we get... after all, why do you think the atmosphere at both OT & ArseAnal have decreased in direct comparison to their respective teams' success... and likewise, the 'feeling' at Emirates Marketing Project at the moment is one of sheer shock and surprise with every victory, which, like them or not, they HAVEN'T been used to that regularly before the Arabs rocked up... it'll soon turn all prawn sandwich and booing at a draw!

Does that make ANY sense whatsoever?
 
Noboby has said we are entitled, but the implication and wording of the ones I read seemed that way and our squad has not been able to cope, we have no cover at fullbacks, central defenders are injured, lack pace when Lennon & Bale are out and no consistancy from our strikers. We should all see this, given that we have done well this year. I believe we have made big improvements since Redknapp has been here and if we get rid of deadwood and inject some pace in team we can continue this. I would just like to see some people realise this, not just react to media stories and windups
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Noboby has said we are entitled, but the implication and wording of the ones I read seemed that way and our squad has not been able to cope, we have no cover at fullbacks, central defenders are injured, lack pace when Lennon & Bale are out and no consistancy from our strikers. We should all see this, given that we have done well this year. I believe we have made big improvements since Redknapp has been here and if we get rid of deadwood and inject some pace in team we can continue this. I would just like to see some people realise this, not just react to media stories and windups
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No one deserves success, (except Liverpool!).

We deserve to be challenging for a top 4 place as STANDARD though.

We aint punching above our weight if we are.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I have stopped reading or posting in the last few weeks after reading some of the bile pouring out on this site. It's bad enough at the ground listening to the same idiots moaning everytime something goes wrong. Some of our "fans" are far worse than those "we are entitled to" fans of the "Sky Four". Sure I want us to win every game playing well and in the right spirit but I've been going long enough to know it's expecting too much. We all know we need better players but are the right ones ready to join us? If we sack Redknapp will we get better?

It will be disappointing if we don't finish 4th or better but when you've watched a season when Keith Osgood was the best player you can put it all into perspective.

At the end of the day it's a game and meant to be enjoyed, I've found in the last couple of seasons that despite our relative improvement I'm not having so much fun at the games, everything is so intense and the humour is disappearing from the crowd. I don't buy into the Shankly crap it's up there with "Greed is good" and "there's no such thing as society"

Have we just become like the rest of "premier league" football fans and lost the plot, if we have do we deserve anything better?
Click to expand...

I've been saying this for a while. Spurs fans have always been a little bit blinkered (like most fans I guess) and I could understand why fans of other teams despise us so much because we simply aren't humble or realistic. Even when we were brick for years we'd give it the big time Charlie routine that we are a bigger club etc.

But even I am utterly amazed at how fast our fan base has become so incredibly arrogant. Going from hoping and supporting, to demanding and expecting. Especially from the younger generation, those that didn't even know Spurs as a truly competitive outfit. Hell I've been a Spurs fan since 1981 and truthfully regarding the league we've NEVER been a competitive outfit! In my life time we've never gone into a season as favourites for the title.

I do think the whole top four for Champions League plays a big part in all this unfortunately. A team that finishes 4th is regarded as having a successful season, or at least a damage limitation season if it is a club like Chelsea. A team can finish just 1pt behind it in 5th an their season is regarded as a disaster. It really is quite absurd. There was always that line between success and failure, but that line now is so narrow it barely exists at all. As stated before, Fergie would have been fired by Utd in his first 5 years had the Champions League (in its present format) existed back then.

Perhaps one irony of Heysel is that by getting English teams kicked out of Europe, it took the pressure off of league finish positions. As long as you weren't relegated, it really didn't matter a brick where you finished if you didn't win it (other than prize money of course). That may well have been the reason Utd did stick with Fergie even though it all turned to brick under him and if that is the case, how funny is that against Liverpool?
 
Spurs, in name, are one of the elite. A world-wide famous name. Many years ago, this was also true in substance too. The 1980's saw the cup-hungry Spurs side, that IHMO was the last time Spurs had an elite side of real social standing. We may not have won the league (long overdue, IMHO), but we did win cups, and others looked up to us.

Since the end of the 1980's, Totenham's slide, substance-wise, is shocking and largely the fault of mismanagement (Sugars reign/repeated choice of wrong manager, and many vastly overpriced and wrong players purchases/unbalanced sides/some repetition after Sugars reign). The widening chasm of difference between THFC and MUFC/Liverpool, and worst of all The Filth and Cheatski, in the 1990's+ is a bitter pill for long standing Spurs fans to take (like me, and many others). IMHO it should never have happened. Sugar blamed everything/everyone bar himself, just like his arrogance in The Apprentice. It was said at the time, in the early 1990's, that in business terms, Sugar was AC Milan and Venables was Crewe Alexandria. Unfortunately, in football terms, it was the other way round. But he who pays the piper, calls the shots. As in any walk of life.

Its this fall from grace that Tottenham are still, ultimately, trying to recover from now, over 2 decades later. Of course it isn't easy to narrow and bridge the gap, and it certainly costs ?ú's. Lots. Equally, as Spurs invest in new players, so do the main competition, so it is a constant cycle, and short of a mega rich Ambramovich/Mansour character dropping into the equation, we are going to find it difficult to climb back to parity with 'the big cheeses', and above. Which I presume is what all Spurs ultimately want.

So I don't think Spurs fans generally think we should be one of the elite because of who we are, per se, more that we should have continued to be one of the elite from a time when we most certainly were, which was mostly thrown away, IMHO. I believe this is reinforced by the Spurs name, social standing and brand, plus huge fan base.

In the course of the pursuit of bridging the gap, in the last few seasons, and aquisition of better and better players leading to the best squad Spurs have had for 20+ years, we have made inroads into moving up the league. My beef is that with the squad we have had this season, and looking at it pre-season, top 4 was most certainly a realistic expectation, and also not caving in to the likes of Norwich at home was too. Not a long shot, but measured expectation married to what we have. IMHO, if we could magically add Torres to our squad, we should be challenging solidly for the title. I would expect that.

So you do not deserve success, you have to earn it. But I would argue that, due to the previous, we have a squad - now - to earn it. What we don't have is the right manager to achieve the success required (as proven this season) and your chances of achieving it are not heightened by getting Louis Saha and Ryan Nelson in the January transfer window. And I have said that without swearing....

You earn success. Unless you are downright lucky (Lucky Arsenal, as known since the 1930's). We set in place most of the building blocks to achieve that, and then we blow it. Its this spectacular own goal that gets me.

Out of interest, what sort of squad do people think we need to acquire, to absolutely justify an expectation of qualification for the CL?
 
We will deserve to finish wherever we finish, no matter what. The table takes results in to account from every other team in the league, home and away.
 
It's hard to say if you deserve something or not. If I see a nice bloke do something good, he probably deserves any reward coming to him. If I see a man unemployed pick up every newspaper and knock on every companies door to get a job to feed his family he probably deserves a change of fortune. Do we deserve success this season ? I would say yes to an extent, bricky dont deserve to win the league, they have not earnt that. Chelsea dont deserve the CL final either, they never earnt that either. We are ran the right way, we dont have players here for the project, we have arguably played the best football and for that I think we deserve that CL spot that people think is success.
 
Nobody deserves anything successwise, but you deserve what you get failurewise. What I mean by that, for example, is the slop that Blackburn were on Sunday. What do they deserve? To be relegated, obviously, if that performance is all they're capable of. The lack of tactics, the lack of passion, the lack of flexibility when they were 1-0 down was simply astonishing.

Clubs don't deserve success, you have to earn it, which you do by making sensible long-term decisions off the pitch. Get a good manager and have faith in him (contrast Man Utd sticking with Ferguson in the early years and the Chavs getting rid of AVB after just a few months), invest in a high-quality long-term youth policy, build a new stadium, and improve the scouting network so that you get the best talent around at affordable prices. Joe Lewis, are you listening?
 
I think people have got mixed up. In life you dont get what you deserve. Some times you get lucky, sometimes you dont. There is no factor in the league that gives you extra points if you dont cheat or dive etc.
 
Joesh said:
I think people have got mixed up. In life you dont get what you deserve. Some times you get lucky, sometimes you dont. There is no factor in the league that gives you extra points if you dont cheat or dive etc.
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It gets you through a semi final and into a CL final though.
 
I think it was luck in the Barca games especially, who knew the best player in the world would miss his penalty that could have seen them through or the chances missed in the first leg. The semi final, assuming you are talking of the Fa cup, was more down to our poor performance more than anything else.
 
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