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Dele interview

Muttley said:
I think you have to relate what Richi is going through right now to really understand what Dele was going through. It wasn't all about his mental health. When those soft tissue injuries constantly recur like they did with Dele you cannot get fit to do your job. That physical impairment impacts your cognition and your mental health. Just look at Rose and Lennon. Poor Lennon had to be sectioned in the end. It's inevitably why Richi's mental health is also down as he just can't do the one thing he loves doing the most.

I notice a lot that people want to completely overlook Dele's physical body challenges when having these conversations. Even recently he's been back out with that specialist team in Dubai trying to get his body conditioned. I think people like Dyche see that massive effort Dele does in the background, so desperate to get back playing. Every time his body lets him down, and probably the biggest reason we won't see him back again.

I don't think he's fallen out of love with the game at all. I wish he would. His mental state would be a lot better if that were the case.
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I agree.
 
thfcsteff said:
...which for 5-6 years is a claim simply not backed up by his stats. A consistent runner, consistently took up smart defensive positions, was very responsible for the actions he needed to take off the ball, and sacrificed his natural game for a deeper role at the 2018 World Cup in order to allow an extra attack-minded player to be on the pitch. I think too many people took one look at Dele - his appearance/manner - and wrote him off as a luxury player. He was actually a far more complete footballer than just that...
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Maybe wording ..

He isn't a position player, e.g. he won't work in a (as example) Conte side where you are expected to be with 1 yard of x position with/without ball, I'd put him the same as Rafa VDV, not they don't work hard but they need to play to their instincts

Like I said, see what Pep has done with Grealish, some players don't work in rigid systems, the issue is more and more, teams play rigid systems/expectations.

thfcsteff said:
Have you been following his actions in the last couple of years? I think it is exceptionally clear that he is trying very hard to rescue his career.
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Really not qualified to make the point, sometimes you want to do something, sometimes you believe you have to do something, but you can't quite? (if that makes sense). At this level, you have to be able to physically do it, mentally do it (focus/commit/buy in) and be given the appropriate opportunities

I think for him, none of those things are 100% where it needs to be. And unfortunately I don't see a way home/back for him, hopefully I'm proven completely wrong and he gets a swansong few years ..
 
Raziel said:
@thfcsteff and I have a debate for years re Dele, even in his prime I thought his flaw was the game was too easy for him, he could toy with the best players in the world, I don't think he ever got to the part where it's about work/grind/adapt to keep relevant and keep being effective
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I genuinely believe that Dele's strengths and weaknesses come from that 10 year old kid playing with the bigger boys on the basketball court. It is not the orthodox way that kids learn the game obviously. The pictures he was drawing in his head were way different. That's also why being a false number 9 was just so natural to him. I'm not sure he even knew how he did it.

Where I can agree with you, Dele never quite got to that point in his career where he had adapted. When he had to do a specialist job for Poch against Dortmund in the holding role he was brilliant. Then the next week, he was doing the wrong flicks and tricks in our own third. That was where an older Dele would have had to work on his selection process on the pitch. He wasn't on the basketball court anymore and sometimes he forgot.
 
Raziel said:
Maybe wording ..

He isn't a position player, e.g. he won't work in a (as example) Conte side where you are expected to be with 1 yard of x position with/without ball, I'd put him the same as Rafa VDV, not they don't work hard but they need to play to their instincts

Like I said, see what Pep has done with Grealish, some players don't work in rigid systems, the issue is more and more, teams play rigid systems/expectations.



Really not qualified to make the point, sometimes you want to do something, sometimes you believe you have to do something, but you can't quite? (if that makes sense). At this level, you have to be able to physically do it, mentally do it (focus/commit/buy in) and be given the appropriate opportunities

I think for him, none of those things are 100% where it needs to be. And unfortunately I don't see a way home/back for him, hopefully I'm proven completely wrong and he gets a swansong few years ..
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To continue the debate :)...

He was so much better than Rafa VDV (who for my money was always overrated - talk about a highlights player!)...I get the point you're looking to make, but I can only evaluate him in the main side he DID play in (Poch's) and he was absolutely NOT just a 'luxury' player. Yes, he played pn instinct but he also played with responsibility too.

I think what I disagreed with was the line where you'd said 'he has to be accountable...'
I think accountability is the last thing you can question with Dele, and that doesn't require any qualification. He came out and discussed his mental health, and has been working tirelessly to try and find fitness and health. Dyche and others have corroborated this. Whether he does or not, his self-accountability at this time cannot be questioned.
 
thfcsteff said:
To continue the debate :)...

He was so much better than Rafa VDV (who for my money was always overrated - talk about a highlights player!)...I get the point you're looking to make, but I can only evaluate him in the main side he DID play in (Poch's) and he was absolutely NOT just a 'luxury' player. Yes, he played pn instinct but he also played with responsibility too.

I think what I disagreed with was the line where you'd said 'he has to be accountable...'
I think accountability is the last thing you can question with Dele, and that doesn't require any qualification. He came out and discussed his mental health, and has been working tirelessly to try and find fitness and health. Dyche and others have corroborated this. Whether he does or not, his self-accountability at this time cannot be questioned.
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I totally agree that Dele run marathons for us and always took responsibility. I do think there was problem with him overplaying in the wrong areas of the pitch though. He would try the complicated when the give and go option was the right choice. Had all the injuries not happened, I would have looked forward to seeing him evolve in his choice making.
 
thfcsteff said:
To continue the debate :)...

He was so much better than Rafa VDV (who for my money was always overrated - talk about a highlights player!)...I get the point you're looking to make, but I can only evaluate him in the main side he DID play in (Poch's) and he was absolutely NOT just a 'luxury' player. Yes, he played pn instinct but he also played with responsibility too.

I think what I disagreed with was the line where you'd said 'he has to be accountable...'
I think accountability is the last thing you can question with Dele, and that doesn't require any qualification. He came out and discussed his mental health, and has been working tirelessly to try and find fitness and health. Dyche and others have corroborated this. Whether he does or not, his self-accountability at this time cannot be questioned.
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again mate, wording .. I'm not in his shoes, I have no idea what challenges he has lived through

But at the end of the day, if he can revive anything of his career, it will be down to him (others can only support), his efforts, his ability to put it together. Is that work you mentioned enough? don't know ..
 
Muttley said:
I totally agree that Dele run marathons for us and always took responsibility. I do think there was problem with him overplaying in the wrong areas of the pitch though. He would try the complicated when the give and go option was the right choice. Had all the injuries not happened, I would have looked forward to seeing him evolve in his choice making.
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This is where I think Jose blew it with him. Dele was always prepared to work and adapt; Jose seemed to destroy his confidence though...then came injuries...I think he'd be a hell of a player today if he'd have been able to grow.
 
thfcsteff said:
This is where I think Jose blew it with him. Dele was always prepared to work and adapt; Jose seemed to destroy his confidence though...then came injuries...I think he'd be a hell of a player today if he'd have been able to grow.
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It's interesting how we remember it. My feeling was that Poch was the one that burnt out Dele and caused those injuries. Mostly because his chairman and recruitment team couldn't get credible squad alternatives to Dele and Eriksen. Then the first injury appeared in the 17/18 season but the catalogue of follow-up injuries happened in Poch last full season - 18/19. Obviously the fast start with MK Dons didn't help matters either. He racked up 80 appearances in those couple of seasons as a 17/18 year old. Utter madness.

Had Jose not been such a prick to Dele, I would have fully understood how he was the unlucky one who had the broken Dele in the 19/20 season. Jose just didn't seem to care that when when you've had so many injuries of that type, you're not confident in your own body even if you're passed fit. He just assumed he was fit for work and should be performing at prior levels.
 
thfcsteff said:
To continue the debate :)...

He was so much better than Rafa VDV (who for my money was always overrated - talk about a highlights player!)...I get the point you're looking to make, but I can only evaluate him in the main side he DID play in (Poch's) and he was absolutely NOT just a 'luxury' player. Yes, he played pn instinct but he also played with responsibility too.

I think what I disagreed with was the line where you'd said 'he has to be accountable...'
I think accountability is the last thing you can question with Dele, and that doesn't require any qualification. He came out and discussed his mental health, and has been working tirelessly to try and find fitness and health. Dyche and others have corroborated this. Whether he does or not, his self-accountability at this time cannot be questioned.
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Dele better than VdV? Blinks!!
 
Dele during those first 3 season was at a comparable level to VdV in terms of goslls/assists.

Rafa had a goal or assist every 1.61 games for us over 2 seasons, Dele was at a rate of every 1.68 games.


A real shame it fizzled out
 
billyiddo said:
Dele during those first 3 season was at a comparable level to VdV in terms of goslls/assists.

Rafa had a goal or assist every 1.61 games for us over 2 seasons, Dele was at a rate of every 1.68 games.


A real shame it fizzled out
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The problem was that Rafa didn't have 90 mins in him. In those days Dele ran marathons on the pitch and the system needed it.

I'm massive fans of these attacking players who had the levels of defensive smarts as these two. These two, and Eriksen, had it in abundance. Not the swashbuckling defensive nature of a Wanyama or Sandro, but the way they could nick the ball or stop a counter in its tracks by being in the right place at the right time. We don't have enough of that from Madds in my opinion.
 
Mikey10 said:
Lovely from him then. Can’t help but feel we should be helping Dele out by giving him somewhere to continue his recovery. Maybe he wants a fresh start in Italy though.
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If you look closely we already have another Dele

Dominic Ayodele Solanke-Mitchell
 
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