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Defending (1-goal) leads at the hour mark.....

Diamond Lights said:
Ha, erm, what do you expect them to come out and say? Hardly going to say out publicly it's a tactical instruction are they!? No you're right i'm sure the things they're saying publicly are 400% the same things straight from the dressing room. Definitely no filter provided.

Must just be a coincidence we've gone 1-0 up and sat back against Wolves, Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Fulham and then conceded in the last 15 mins of the game. 4 times in 16 matches. A coincidence.

Surprised it's not happened to any other team.
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Why say anything then?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Why say anything then?
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Because atm there's a public inquest and any time they have an interviewer/reporter put in front of them they get asked why they keep playing this way, because everyone can see what's happening.

As said in the other thread, if it's not direct instruction to sit back then it's a natural reaction to what we do (or perhaps what we don't do) on the training pitch or how we set up - look at Sheff Utd example, worse team in PL history and we've set up tactically on account of how they play, you can tell from that the focus in the week on the training pitch is what we need to do to stop them, not how we play, not how we define our football - things like that will seep in to the mindset of the players.
 
billyiddo said:
Because atm there's a public inquest and any time they have an interviewer/reporter put in front of them they get asked why they keep playing this way, because everyone can see what's happening.

As said in the other thread, if it's not direct instruction to sit back then it's a natural reaction to what we do (or perhaps what we don't do) on the training pitch or how we set up - look at Sheff Utd example, worse team in PL history and we've set up tactically on account of how they play, you can tell from that the focus in the week on the training pitch is what we need to do to stop them, not how we play, not how we define our football - things like that will seep in to the mindset of the players.
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Yep that’s the key
The players are scared of making those mistakes and naturally that has an impact
 
It's a very complexed team balancing act. Mourinho has been excellent at this in the past mainly because he could in his old jobs cherry-pick the better players.
Yesterday was (just watched MOTD) better balance IMHO.
Will we use the same setup for Pool?
 
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StephenH said:
It's a very complexed team balancing act. Mourinho has been excellent at this in the past mainly because he could in his old jobs cherry-pick the better players.
Yesterday was (just watched MOTD) better balance IMHO.
Will we use the same setup for Pool?
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I’d love to see us do that
Can’t see it but it would be exactly what I’d do
 
StephenH said:
I'm not sure the specific personnel could stop Pool?
See there, I would even bottle it!
Sissoko in or ??
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But could pool stop us?
Sissoko for me is a no
We are just much more fluid with the ball without him
He comes on when we need to defend things
Pool away from home are not the same side and that’s a factor that gets forgotten about
 
Bedfordspurs said:
But could pool stop us?
Sissoko for me is a no
We are just much more fluid with the ball without him
He comes on when we need to defend things
Pool away from home are not the same side and that’s a factor that gets forgotten about
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Yep start Sissi on the bench and play Bergwijn/?? on the right?
My bench would include Dele, he's too good to leave out totally IMHO

Dele/Kane/Son can move their defence all over the place and Ndombele can exploit/help anywhere he finds space.
 
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GPRD81 said:
With so much frustration over the way we defend (or don't defend) leads I thought I'd have a look at some data.

I've looked at any games since Jose took over in which we were leading by 1 goal after 60 minutes and what the outcome of the match was. During Jose's time this has occurred on 12 occasions.
(Fulham, Brentford, Wolves, C Palace, Man C, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Everton, Man U, Norwich (FAC), So'ton (FAC), Norwich, Wolves)

Of these 12 occasions we have WON 5, DRAWN 7, LOST 0 (of the 5 wins only 1 remained the same score) = 22 PTS

I've then gone back to look at the how we've done in the past in the same circumstance. Of the 12 occasions prior to that (all under Poch from Dec 2018 until Nov 2019):
(Sheff U, So'ton, Leicester, Arsenal, C Palace, So'ton, Dortmund, Dortmund, Leicester, Chelsea (LC), Wolves, Arsenal (LC)

WON 7, DRAWN 2, LOST 3 (3 of those wins retained the same score) - 23 POINTS

Going back to the 12 occurrences prior to that (Nov 2017 - Oct 2018)
West Ham, Cardiff, Brighton, Inter, Watford, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Juventus, Arsenal, Swansea, Brighton, Bournemouth

WON 9, DRAW 0, LOST 3 = 27 POINTS

This shows that under Jose we are less than 50% likely to win a game if winning by a single goal margin (after 60 mins) whereas not too long ago that win % was 75%. However, we haven't managed to lose any games under him whilst under both previous periods we lost 25% of the time.

Probably tells you something about the way Jose sets us up. Less likely to lose, but less likely to win too.

There's all sorts of subjective measures to apply to this - relative strength of opposition, quality of our team, tactics in play, fortune/misfortune etc. And sure 60th minute is an arbitrary moment to start from.

With so many contrasting thoughts about the merits of Jose's tactics thought it would be worth presenting some hard data to reflect upon.

When I get the chance and I'll have a look at how other teams compare.
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Excellent work. Cheers!

I still think there's an issue of sample size here. It's only part of 12 games we're talking about. That's not to say we don't have an issue with this, but the magnitude of that issue might look greater than it is because of the smallish sample.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
But realistically all our players should be alright on the ball, otherwise we are saying that all those teams that look comfortable knocking the ball about have better players than us?

Plus Sheffield United have 5 points, which would suggest theyre not much of a threat this season.
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Should be, I agree, but they're not are they?

Realistically is there a shortage of quality on the ball in some areas for us compared to other big teams?
Diamond Lights said:
Ha, erm, what do you expect them to come out and say? Hardly going to say out publicly it's a tactical instruction are they!? No you're right i'm sure the things they're saying publicly are 400% the same things straight from the dressing room. Definitely no filter provided.

Must just be a coincidence we've gone 1-0 up and sat back against Wolves, Palace, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Fulham and then conceded in the last 15 mins of the game. 4 times in 16 matches. A coincidence.

Surprised it's not happened to any other team.
Click to expand...
If Mourinho is telling players one thing, then lying about it to the press and communicating (implicit or explicit) to the players that he expects them to do the same I'd expect our squad morale to drop rather quickly. I'm not seeing that happening.
 
StephenH said:
It's a very complexed team balancing act. Mourinho has been excellent at this in the past mainly because he could in his old jobs cherry-pick the better players.
Yesterday was (just watched MOTD) better balance IMHO.
Will we use the same setup for Pool?
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's been an effect of him being able to cherry pick top players. But it's not like he's necessarily signed super expensive players for more defensive positions all the time.

And he has been able to find that balance most places he's been. I'd back him to do the same here.
 
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