David Raya

[Gazza]

Out of contract next summer? If i was him i'd see it out. See what precontracts are on offer in jan.

(Yes i'd do the same if i was kane).

Kerching!

Why wait when the Saudis will pay you any figure that you write in a contract?

Kane could be up £5mil a week as of tomorrow.

 

[Yiddo]

The Saudi’s will pay our price tag for Kane without even breaking sweat.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The Saudi’s will pay our price tag for Kane without even breaking sweat.

And then loan him to Chelsea

 

[AdamB]

With Saudis offering stupid money, we should provide them with a price list:

- Kane: £250m
- Dier £30m
- Sanchez £30m
- PEH £40m
etc

They'll probably bite on one of them.

 

[Bishop]

They are WFs, not ACMs. The rest is basically what I said, there are more ways to play than with an ACM. Liverpool has better players than us and I'm not saying that we can do what they did, the point is that they don't use an ACM (no matter how much you want their WFs to be one) and are the best example of that, so no, it's not a silly comparison.

Creative WFs that we don't possess. A playmaking RB that again we also don't possess. There are reasons Liverpool could play without an outright ACM in the middle and that's because they have those attributes in other areas, we do not. It's a silly comparison because we do not have the same type of players or players with similar attributes.

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[DubSpur]

Creative WFs that we don't possess. A playmaking RB that again we also don't possess. There are reasons Liverpool could play without an outright ACM in the middle and that's because they have those attributes in other areas, we do not. It's a silly comparison because we do not have the same type of players or players with similar attributes.

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So it’s possible to play other ways then with an ACM, well done, you got there.

 

[Grays_1890]

Are Son and Deki not creative WFs despite their tail off last season? The Season before we probably had the most productive WFs in the league?

 

[Bishop]

So it’s possible to play other ways then with an ACM, well done, you got there.

It's not possible for us to do it because we don't have the same type of players. It's so not difficult to understand if you look a little deeper than surface level.

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[AdamB]

Are Son and Deki not creative WFs despite their tail off last season? The Season before we probably had the most productive WFs in the league?

I wouldnt say Son is 'creative' in terms of the type of player we're missing. We're missing someone who passes quickly, keeps the ball moving, can play defence splitting passes in tight defences, moves well themselves. None of those are Son or Deki IMO. We're missing someone who is something like Bernardo Silva, Grealish, Hazard (of old), etc

 

[Grays_1890]

I wouldnt say Son is 'creative' in terms of the type of player we're missing. We're missing someone who passes quickly, keeps the ball moving, can play defence splitting passes in tight defences, moves well themselves. None of those are Son or Deki IMO. We're missing someone who is something like Bernardo Silva, Grealish, Hazard (of old), etc

I agree we need that different type of player, I believe we needed that from a deeper lying player from other managers, Carrick and Modric mould. But they do create alot of chance between them, maybe not in the same mould as the players you mention I agree but they do create

 

[DubSpur]

It's not possible for us to do it because we don't have the same type of players. It's so not difficult to understand if you look a little deeper than surface level.

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We managed to do it last season (badly) and the season before (well) when we came 4th, so it is possible. It's not difficult to understand if you get past the idea that there's only one way to play football.

 

[Bishop]

We managed to do it last season (badly) and the season before (well) when we came 4th, so it is possible. It's not difficult to understand if you get past the idea that there's only one way to play football.

Who said there is only one way to play? It's about attributes. If we had a TAA at RB then there is less need for those ball playing attributes elsewhere but we don't. So arguing that we can ape Liverpool's system when we patently don't have the same type of players is silly.

And 4th on 71 points is 3 positions and 25+ points behind what Liverpool achieved so no, scraping 4th (mainly due to Arsenal bottling it let's not forget) is not comparable to the Liverpool setup no matter how basically you want to look at their system.

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[Gutter Boy]

I agree we need that different type of player, I believe we needed that from a deeper lying player from other managers, Carrick and Modric mould. But they do create alot of chance between them, maybe not in the same mould as the players you mention I agree but they do create

But they often had a second playmaker sitting further forward – Modric had van der Vaart, whereas Carrick had Murphy/Tainio/Davids (a bit more industrious function perhaps) on the left and Keane dropping into the 10 hole between Mido and Jenas.

Basically Benancur is our Modric/Carrick, but we need a playmaker in the final third too, and at the moment Kulusevski (or Kane if we deploy him behind Richarlison) is all we’ve got.

 

[DubSpur]

Who said there is only one way to play? It's about attributes. If we had a TAA at RB then there is less need for those ball playing attributes elsewhere but we don't. So arguing that we can ape Liverpool's system when we patently don't have the same type of players is silly.

And 4th on 71 points is 3 positions and 25+ points behind what Liverpool achieved so no, scraping 4th (mainly due to Arsenal bottling it let's not forget) is not comparable to the Liverpool setup no matter how basically you want to look at their system.

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You're not getting the point. I'm not saying we can ape Liverpool, they are just an example of a team that don't use ACMs and do it well, just like if we get ACMs we're not going to turn into Emirates Marketing Project.

FFS, getting 4th is our goal, it's not being compared to what Liverpool achieved. Think you can try and twist what I said any more?

 

[Bishop]

You're not getting the point. I'm not saying we can ape Liverpool, they are just an example of a team that don't use ACMs and do it well, just like if we get ACMs we're not going to turn into Emirates Marketing Project.

FFS, getting 4th is our goal, it's not being compared to what Liverpool achieved. Think you can try and twist what I said any more?

But they use those attributes in other areas that we do not have which was my point from the beginning. They have them out wide and at the back we don't have either so Liverpool is not a comparison that can be made. If we have a similar mix of players to Liverpool then fair enough but you can't make weak comparisons to alternative systems that we can't play either.

I don't care whether the creative player is out wide or in the middle, the point is to add those creative players that we are sorely lacking.

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[DubSpur]

But they use those attributes in other areas that we do not have which was my point from the beginning. They have them out wide and at the back we don't have either so Liverpool is not a comparison that can be made. If we have a similar mix of players to Liverpool then fair enough but you can't make weak comparisons to alternative systems that we can't play either.

I don't care whether the creative player is out wide or in the middle, the point is to add those creative players that we are sorely lacking.

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Ok, we've no creativity in the team yet managed to score 70 goals and the 5th most in the league. That's 5 goals less then Liverpool that seemingly have creativity in every single position. Yup, we really need a few ACMs to sort that out and I'm sure a few ACMs will also sort out our defensive issues as well. Hell get an ACM in and I'm sure we can keep Lloris in goal as that will stop him throwing the ball in his own net.

 

[Bishop]

Ok, we've no creativity in the team yet managed to score 70 goals and the 5th most in the league. That's 5 goals less then Liverpool that seemingly have creativity in every single position. Yup, we really need a few ACMs to sort that out and I'm sure a few ACMs will also sort out our defensive issues as well. Hell get an ACM in and I'm sure we can keep Lloris in goal as that will stop him throwing the ball in his own net.

So you talk about twisting things and mention Liverpool having creativity in every position. Did I say that? I was clearly talking about the season Liverpool won the league or finished 2nd, (why would I be talking about last season when they were barely any better than we were and had changed their system from the one you mentioned in the first place?) In those seasons they scored a minimum of 85 goals+, but regularly hit over 90. So again no your comparison doesn't work. I'm sorry for pointing this out to you but it is what it is. It is interesting that you are drifting all over the place as you realise you're argument doesn't stand up to conversation.

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[DubSpur]

So you talk about twisting things and mention Liverpool having creativity in every position. Did I say that? I was clearly talking about the season Liverpool won the league or finished 2nd, (why would I be talking about last season when they were barely any better than we were and had changed their system from the one you mentioned in the first place?) In those seasons they scored a minimum of 85 goals+, but regularly hit over 90. So again no your comparison doesn't work. I'm sorry for pointing this out to you but it is what it is. It is interesting that you are drifting all over the place as you realise you're argument doesn't stand up to conversation.

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No, you are making an argument that has nothing to do with what my point was and trying to make out that I said we can play like Liverpool. If you get to twist things and talk about nothing to do with the point being made, expect it back. Anyway I'll bow out there.

 

[Bishop]

No, you are making an argument that has nothing to do with what my point was and trying to make out that I said we can play like Liverpool. If you get to twist things and talk about nothing to do with the point being made, expect it back. Anyway I'll bow out there.

Your point was "who just get the ball into the front 3 and let them do their thing."

So me replying and pointing out that first their front men are almost ACM like in their qualities and that they have a playmaking RB as well is not me twisting things and talking about nothing. I'm pointing out how superficial your understanding of Liverpool's system was. You don't like that cool, but it is what it is.

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[Grays_1890]

Your point was "who just get the ball into the front 3 and let them do their thing."

So me replying and pointing out that first their front men are almost ACM like in their qualities and that they have a playmaking RB as well is not me twisting things and talking about nothing. I'm pointing out how superficial your understanding of Liverpool's system was. You don't like that cool, but it is what it is.

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By default we look likely to revert to that style from what I have seen.

That 4 - 3 -3 will almost certainly look like a 4 - 2 - 3 - 1 at times and transitions with then with that second CM being a hybrid to help support Bentancur but also join attacks. So we might see ourselves with the best of both