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Danny Rose

Rorschach said:
Yes, that's it more than likely. He looks like a winger doing a job rather than a natural defender. While other defenders are refining their art at 24, Danny is still learning it IMO. I think it may be too late for him to re-task himself as a defender though maybe I am being a little hasty. I hope so.

Good coaching will obviously help but I just don't see any defensive traits there. No raw material so to speak. As a defender you need to want to stop goals against first and foremost. Bust a gut to get back in position like Walker, or throw yourself in front a pile driver like Dawson, or read the danger and snuff it out like say Vertoghen (used to). I don't see any of those qualities in Danny and it might be too late for him to learn them now, or at least develop them to a sufficient standard for a CL chasing team. Anything a FB contributes from an attacking sense is a bonus really, though fast becoming a requirement I suppose, but if you don't have the basics of defending right then those attacking traits are the icing without the cake.
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So you need a coach to work with the raw materials to determine the ideal position for any given player; in this case, fast, small, and angry.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Well, that's your considered opinion then, and I won't attempt to forcefully challenge it. Out of curiosity, though, apart from the red card issue which you brought up, is there any other reason you prefer Fryers to Rose?
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Yes, i think he is a better player.
 
I honestly don't know what he's good at. He can't defend, he jogs back when out of position, has questionable temperament as previously mentioned, has poor positional sense and is rubbish at crossing. If we hope to be a top 4/5 side this season then I really don't see how we can afford to play him.
 
For someone apparently so poor why didnt he get taken to the cleaners by the oppositions' wingers last season?
 
Jurgen the German said:
I honestly don't know what he's good at. He can't defend, he jogs back when out of position, has questionable temperament as previously mentioned, has poor positional sense and is rubbish at crossing. If we hope to be a top 4/5 side this season then I really don't see how we can afford to play him.
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He can run fast.
 
Modric THFC said:
He can run fast.
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I think he's more than adequate as our backup left-back. He's got 2 consecutive seasons of Premier League football behind him now, some good performances, some bad. Defensively, I thought he looked alright when AVB was coach. His crossing is poor though.

BAE was on loan in the Championhip last season and hasn't really been performing to a good standard for couple of seasons now. Fryers is just totally untried -- so for the backup spot, I'd put Rose ahead of those two.
 
harr1984 said:
For someone apparently so poor why didnt he get taken to the cleaners by the oppositions' wingers last season?
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Apart from being injured most of the season, we conceded a lot of big chances from play down our left side.
 
At some point you draw the line.

Fwiw i was impressed by his performances when on loan at Sunderland. He has not continued that when back at Spurs. The reason maybe the ins and outs and the quirks of each manager. But AVB did give him what he wanted, 1st choice status and a run at being our left back.

As others have pointed out the list of his qualities is not long. Perhaps via himself or his managers he has suffered from being caught between LB, LW, LM and in doing so never really learning very much along the way.

But as i said at the start you have to draw the line somewhere and if you genuinely think the boy hasn't got it or will not be the level required for our (ie the clubs) aspirations then you have to move him on. Rose is not 19/20 he is 24yrs old and similar to Falque needs to find their level.

The plus for us is that they are 24 and there should be some decent selling value (weren't sunderland thinking of giving us 10m for rose at one point?)
 
Modric THFC said:
He can run fast.
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Physically he has all the qualities needed to become a very good full back I think. Not quite as extreme physically as Kyle Walker so he can't rely on that to the same extent, but Rose is clearly physically able.

The promising thing for him is that most of the things he's been lacking for us are things that a very good manager could help him improve quite dramatically.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
At some point you draw the line.

Fwiw i was impressed by his performances when on loan at Sunderland. He has not continued that when back at Spurs. The reason maybe the ins and outs and the quirks of each manager. But AVB did give him what he wanted, 1st choice status and a run at being our left back.

As others have pointed out the list of his qualities is not long. Perhaps via himself or his managers he has suffered from being caught between LB, LW, LM and in doing so never really learning very much along the way.

But as i said at the start you have to draw the line somewhere and if you genuinely think the boy hasn't got it or will not be the level required for our (ie the clubs) aspirations then you have to move him on. Rose is not 19/20 he is 24yrs old and similar to Falque needs to find their level.

The plus for us is that they are 24 and there should be some decent selling value (weren't sunderland thinking of giving us 10m for rose at one point?)
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I think a line has been drawn in that we've signed Ben Davies - a player I strongly expect to be first choice at the start of the season.

This answers the objection of many on here a year ago. Very few were saying that he had to be sold iirc, but quite a few were skeptical of him being first choice. For me that remains the same, I have no issues with him as a player in our squad, but I don't think he's quite good enough at this point to be our first choice. If he stays and keeps working hard under Poch I don't think he will be fine as a backup/squad player and it's far from unthinkable that he will improve and become the player we all hoped he would when he first broke through as a left back and impressed at Sunderland.
 
harr1984 said:
For someone apparently so poor why didnt he get taken to the cleaners by the oppositions' wingers last season?
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Loads of goals/chances created through his position, either because of him failing to stop the cross coming in or being caught out of position and simply letting the winger in behind him.

If he was still 20 I'd say give him time, but he's 24, I don't believe any amount of coaching is going to teach him the basic defensive technique, spacial awareness and positioning that he's lacking.
 
Kingdawson said:
Really?
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Just out of curiosity, what kind of answer would convince you here?

And also out of curiosity, were you one of those arguing that we were very exposed in the gap in between the left centre back and the left back specifically when Vlad was the left centre back and Rose was playing at left back?
 
Im sure there were plenty of chances created last season down the left, a big factor being that whoever is our left winger drifts inside and doesnt offer much defensive protection. Hardly the same as having Lennon on the right helping out...
 
harr1984 said:
Im sure there were plenty of chances created last season down the left, a big factor being that whoever is our left winger drifts inside and doesnt offer much defensive protection. Hardly the same as having Lennon on the right helping out...
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But very similar to having Townsend in front of you on the right, which Walker had at the start of the season at least.
 
braineclipse said:
Just out of curiosity, what kind of answer would convince you here?

And also out of curiosity, were you one of those arguing that we were very exposed in the gap in between the left centre back and the left back specifically when Vlad was the left centre back and Rose was playing at left back?
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No but i was one of the ones that stated Vlad gets done with the same passs again and again.
 
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