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Danny Rose

I'm not convinced about him as our first choice LB (if that is where we are). My concern is about his defensive abilities.
I fully accept that my opinions of him have been formed solely on his limited number of league appearances for us over the last few years, and i didnt really watch him when he was at Sunderland last season (although ive heard good reports).
I think as a second-choice LB he's ideal, but if you look at our first eleven on paper, and you have him at LB, i think teams will see him as a weak link.

I dont know how many of the other top 6/7 teams he'd get into.
Probably none of them. And that is quite telling.

I suspect that if Bale is off, there will be another LB coming in and if that is the case, Danny can still expect a number of games in cups/europe etc.
 
i think it takes time to get used to avb's system and both rose and townsend are going to take some time to settle in. no longer a full blooded heart on sleeve type of of football. patient, calculated, favouring long periods of possession above turnovers from pot shot or speculative run.
 
Rose's future depends on the system AVB wants - if the full backs are expected to play as sprinting wingers, overlapping and bursting into the box, then Walker and Rose are decent options.
In that system, 1 or 2 midfielders drop in to cover - Capoue and Sandro are both perfect for that.


If AVB wants the full backs to defend a lot, then Walker and Rose are not the best.

Fryers looks average so far; he got turned easily yesterday and was clearly nowhere near the level of Dawson/Kaboul.
 
Much rather get one last season out of BAE with his experience. I really don't know about having both Walker and Rose in the team, I feel we'll be carrying them both at times and we'll suffer. Have to trust AVB though I guess.
 
Bullet said:
Rose's future depends on the system AVB wants - if the full backs are expected to play as sprinting wingers, overlapping and bursting into the box, then Walker and Rose are decent options.
In that system, 1 or 2 midfielders drop in to cover - Capoue and Sandro are both perfect for that.


If AVB wants the full backs to defend a lot, then Walker and Rose are not the best.

Fryers looks average so far; he got turned easily yesterday and was clearly nowhere near the level of Dawson/Kaboul.
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That's fine but is he not worried even at all about defending? I can't see us keeping a lot of clean sheets this season.
 
parklane1 said:
he has been playing as a LB for 18 months now and he still gets caught out of posistion all the time, his tackling is poor and he is a red card waiting to happen.
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Attacking full backs are going to get caught out of position, it can't be helped, it's the nature of the position.


He is a liability when he tackles though.
 
parklane1 said:
I was surprised how good Fryers looked today, i would rather we played him at LB if Benny is not going to be picked.
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Fryers did more good than bad stuff against Espanyol and like you I would like to see him in the LB position.

Bit late now, though.

Maybe Rose is the new LB. I am not sure about him.
 
Spursalot said:
Attacking full backs are going to get caught out of position, it can't be helped, it's the nature of the position.


He is a liability when he tackles though.
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His tackling is my biggest concern, he can be very rash. He seems to struggle with tricky players, gets frustrated and takes them out. Can see a lot of free kicks given away on that side, a few sendings off leaving us a man down and a poor disciplinary record with suspensions.
He is very good at getting forward but when our opponents attack down our left i wince like I did when high balls came into our box when Gomes was keeper.
 
Spursalot said:
Attacking full backs are going to get caught out of position, it can't be helped, it's the nature of the position.


He is a liability when he tackles though.
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Most players can get caught out of position, it happens, However when he keeps doing it ( like he does) then he is not learning. Four of the goals that we conceded against Monaco came from his side, and the goal yesterday started when he gave a freekick away ( diving into a tackle when he was out of position). His defensive reading of the game is as poor as i have seen in a pro player.
 
He has to have time to either get better or to be evaluate in our system and with our team. He did well for Sunderland in their 4-4-2 with cover from a winger, now he is being asked to play without much cover. All that whilst we have Fryers playing Centre back and new players are getting used to their responsibilities in the team.

Any young player coming into the side, even after being loaned out is going to need time. If we cant give him that, then what is the hope for our youth system. For me yesterday he had two horrendous tackles that in the prem might have got him sent off. But he also showed some good link up play, and a willingness to get around the back of the opposition. Like Ashley Cole or Walker he is going to need time to read the game defensivley, and dont forget he started out as a left winger.
 
Spursalot said:
Attacking full backs are going to get caught out of position, it can't be helped, it's the nature of the position.


He is a liability when he tackles though.
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Depends on what you mean by caught out of position.

Big difference between being caught "out of position" high up the pitch when we lose the ball and he was there attacking compared to being out of position when he's at the back and we're organized (or defending against a break for that matter) by not being close enough to his man, dropping too deep and ruining our offside trap, not tracking his runner etc. The first one of those a player isn't really "out of position" as they're in the position they're supposed to be. The second is a much bigger problem though and not something where being an attack minded full back is a great excuse.

I watched Rose 5-6 full games last season for Sunderland, I've also watched him quite a few games for Spurs. I struggle to think of a good winger he's been up against where he's been put under a bit of pressure defensively and had a good game.

That's not to say he's not going to become a good full back. He has quite a bit of talent and pace goes a long way. But at this point I don't think he's good enough to be our first choice. Would be great if he proved me wrong of course!
 
braineclipse said:
But at this point I don't think he's good enough to be our first choice. Would be great if he proved me wrong of course!
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But there is only one way for him to prove he can be first choice. Give him a run of games and see how he gets on. I would love us to have Coentrao but Rose needs a chance.
 
Sandman said:
He has to have time to either get better or to be evaluate in our system and with our team. He did well for Sunderland in their 4-4-2 with cover from a winger, now he is being asked to play without much cover. All that whilst we have Fryers playing Centre back and new players are getting used to their responsibilities in the team.

Any young player coming into the side, even after being loaned out is going to need time. If we cant give him that, then what is the hope for our youth system. For me yesterday he had two horrendous tackles that in the prem might have got him sent off. But he also showed some good link up play, and a willingness to get around the back of the opposition. Like Ashley Cole or Walker he is going to need time to read the game defensivley, and dont forget he started out as a left winger.
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This is what Ekotto has had to deal with for years now. And he's dealt well with it, because he's been (imo) good enough.

If Rose isn't good enough at this point then making him our first choice because it gives us hope for our youth system or because he did well in a different setup for a relegation candidate last season then we need to re-evaluate our priorities.

There's plenty of hope both for Rose and for our youth system even if we can't make him first choice right now. We can probably give him around 8 cup games, 3-4 league games against smaller teams, some sub appearances even without any injury problems to a first choice left back just this side of Christmas. If that's not enough for him to keep improving then the problem lies elsewhere I think.
 
Sandman said:
But there is only one way for him to prove he can be first choice. Give him a run of games and see how he gets on. I would love us to have Coentrao but Rose needs a chance.
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I disagree.

There's all of last season when he played in the PL at Sunderland. Tell me, if he was a 26 year old full back at Sunderland that was out of contract this summer having performed like he did last season for them would you be happy if we picked him up on a free to make him first choice? That's his current ability.

There's also training. AVB and the coaches see him every day in training, they should have a decent idea what kind of level he's at. Much better than we do as fans of course.

If our management team can't make a fairly solid evaluation based on that, but have to give him a good run as first choice for us in the PL to know then someone is being overpaid.

Him being given a solid run of games as first choice is the only way for us as fans to know if he's good enough.
 
Ekotto did not start off that well if i remember rightly. Also Ekotto is much more experienced. I think we need to give Rose until Xmas to evaluate him. Young players especially in defence make mistakes. I would like to think we will give our youth a chance.
 
But I thought you was saying, he needs a run of games to prove he can be good enough. And by that equation he is first choice? I think Ekotto has gone off the boil, and looked a real weakness in our side last season without Bales work rate in front of him helping him. But AVB's formation does demand a lot of the full backs. I just want to make sure our promising youth get a chance, and are not all replaced by cheap foreign players.
 
Sandman said:
But I thought you was saying, he needs a run of games to prove he can be good enough. And by that equation he is first choice? I think Ekotto has gone off the boil, and looked a real weakness in our side last season without Bales work rate in front of him helping him. But AVB's formation does demand a lot of the full backs. I just want to make sure our promising youth get a chance, and are not all replaced by cheap foreign players.
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My point is that a run as first choice in the team is the only way he can prove to us as fans if he's good enough to be first choice at this point or not. I suspect he's not, but I could obviously be mistaken. A run in the team is the only real way for him to prove me wrong. Similarly it's the only real way to prove those fans that think he is ready wrong.

But we as fans are not the people that make the decision if he's ready to be first choice or not. And the people who make that decision should not need to see him in an extended run as first choice to make that decision. They should know, with reasonable safety, if he's ready or not right now. So to suggest that he should be given a run in the team as first choice to see if he's good enough doesn't make any sense to me. The people he needs to prove himself to should already have enough information to make that decision. Thus saying that he should be given a chance because that's the way to figure out if he's good enough doesn't make sense to me.

I too want to see our promising youth get a chance. But being made first choice before the player is actually ready to be first choice can end a player's career at a club as quickly as it can make their career if they're actually ready.

If AVB and the rest of the management team feels that he's ready to be our first choice. To be relied upon against Hazard, Oscar, Walcott, Cazorla, Nani, Navas, Silva etc in games where we will be looking to pick up points and need to pick up points to reach our goals then fair enough, I will trust them and their decision.
 
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