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Danny Rose

milo said:
Let's go through our top performers and see what extra it would cost. I'll use the wages from earlier in the thread, obviously we do not know how far out they are.

.................................... Current.....Market rate - Cost p.a.
Jan Vertonghen 29 .....£100,000 - £150k - £2.6m
Kyle Walker 26 ............£70,000 - £150k - £4.2m
Toby Alderweireld 27 ..£75,000 - £150k - £3.9m
Danny Rose 26 ............£30,000 - £150k - £6.2m
Eric Dier 22 ..................£70,000 - £150k - £4.2m
Dele Alli 20 ..................£50,000 - £200k - £7.8m
Victor Wanyama 25 .....£70,000 - £100k - £1.6m
Christian Eriksen 24 ....£75,000 - £150k - £3.9m
Harry Kane 23 ..............£100,000 - £250k - £7.8m

That's £42m a season and that is before we consider the employer's tax contributions or what the next level of players and what new signings would expect. And the rich clubs could still afford to go higher to destabilise us.
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Walker pays for it this season, Rose next, and keep bringing through the kids. Repeat.
 
GinolaGinolaGinola said:
It's the same agent as Kyle Walker and is his uncle apparently. Mark Rankine. Make of that what you will but he got a great deal for his close friend Kyle, at City.

http://www.basesoccer.com/people/
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Its common for celebs to agree to an interview with them retaining editorial sign off. In return the publication has an exclusive. In this instance, it looks like Rose has just talked and talked, and the Sun have had their pick of juicy bits. I'd say Mark Rankine maybe good at getting top dollar (not that hard with Walker and Rose's performances under Poch) and not that great at media management - based on today's story. Rose could have effectively said the same thing without undermining his current employer so dramatically.
 
DeleHarry said:
Don't worry our team will be majorly refreshed every summer with big players leaving and new cheaper ones in their place

I just hope our scouts can find some gems and the academy can produce a few more Harry Kanes
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How long have you been a Spurs fan?
 
NaijaSpurs said:
But what happens when Dele and Dier both decide they are not being paid enough?
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They are going to leave. No-one will hang around forever. However the way football is going, the players will leave much sooner than any of us will want

We will be a Monaco, an Ajax, a PSV. Feeder club for clubs richer than us. We are in a foodchain. We simply have to exploit clubs smaller than us
 
BrainOfLevy said:
It's pointless trying to argue Rose's points, as just like VVD's earlier this week they are carefully calculated by his management team to gain sympathy with a fan base and put pressure on his club. In a way it's clever, but we as fans should not be so blind as to by into it. The point should be reiterated, the thing we have that allows us to compete is cohesion and team spirit. Buying into the Rose argument just leads us down a path to which we can never compete.

I really want to say, Danny - you must realise that you were a young player that most had to Google. You were a young player that we had to coach and improve. So was Dele Alli. So was Dier. So is Kane. But he knows this full well. It's not about the arguments, it doesn't matter. He probably doesn't believe them himself. It's calculated to get his move, to split the fan base and pressure Levy. It's working. Don't let it guys.
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See, I disagree with this notion that we shouldn't 'buy in' to the Rose argument.

There is absolutely a case to be made for arguing that callow youth like Onomah, Georgiou and KWP, or third choice players picked up in desperation after first-choice targets went elsewhere because of our dilly-dallying...there is a case to be made that they can never fill the boots of the likes of Eriksen, Alli and Walker/Trippier without major drop-offs in short and medium term - and that said drop offs would compromise our league performance to the point where the likes of Alli, Eriksen, Kane et al leave because they don't see us going anywhere but backwards. And, in that respect, a shiny new stadium makes no difference - nobody stays at Schalke because they have a shiny VELTINS-Arena while finishing mid-table, and nobody will stay at Spurs because we finish mid-table while the NFL goes 'ra-ra' at our bowl twice a year.

Rose was spot on when he pointed out that the players want to see incoming quality as much as the fans do, and that they might see the sort of disastrous transfer window this is turning into for us as a major step back and a brutal lack of ambition on the part of the board. It's what we've been saying as fans long before Rose piped up.

The way Rose went about this was wrong - majorly so. But what he said has been a common point of discussion throughout this barren window and more broadly for a long time.

And I deeply dislike the new notion that agreeing with what he says (as opposed to the way he said it) is 'buying into' his arguments - they were around long before him, and have merit on their own terms.
 
milo said:
You'd rather that than sign two or three players and strengthen the squad?
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Well our record of strengthening the team with kids coming through is a lot better than with 'big' signings. I believe Wenger realised he couldn't compete with the big teams on transfers and wages, so he chose to compete on wages only.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Well our record of strengthening the team with kids coming through is a lot better than with 'big' signings. I believe Wenger realised he couldn't compete with the big teams on transfers and wages, so he chose to compete on wages only.
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The problem with what you are proposing is that we need to sell a £50m player every summer to stand still. If wages continue to grow or we have a year where we do not have a player leave for big money, we are in trouble. Then it really does begin to impact on our ability to recruit and retain players.
 
DeleHarry said:
Players will always have their heads turned but that doesn't mean we shouldn't at least try to pay them a better rate for the results they are currently achieving. This bunch have turned us into title challengers
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Get it right. Poch has.

The problem is, Levy has appointed someone so good that we are way ahead of the curve. It is out of sync with the revenue projection.

Although we like the (relative) success of our team it has created an imbalance. What we have to hope is that although he has improved the players individually it is the TEAM as a collective that is punching above its weight, and hopefully as holes appear Poch can fill those holes successfully.

Some of our players may not be as good as they (and we) think they are. One thing they are is massively valuable, so when this happens at least we are weighed in. We just have to hope we are not pillaged ala Monaco and some kind of continuity can be maintained for the next 3 seasons.
 
milo said:
The problem with what you are proposing is that we need to sell a £50m player every summer to stand still. If wages continue to grow or we have a year where we do not have a player leave for big money, we are in trouble. Then it really does begin to impact on our ability to recruit and retain players.
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We are in trouble anyway, trying to compete on wages? We've got a couple who will go for £150m, let alone £50m.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
Well our record of strengthening the team with kids coming through is a lot better than 'big' signings. I believe Wenger realised he couldn't compete with the big teams on transfers and wages, so he chose to compete on wages only.
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How do Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette fit into that interpretation of Wenger's actions?

As for kids coming through, Kane and Winks. That's two. Everyone else in our first eleven + backup eleven was bought. Where is this massively superior record with our youth over our signings?

We should guard against going down the path the scum did, where they tried to delude themselves that their academy had all the answers and ended up trying to replace first-teamers with Nacer Barazite, Gilles Sunu, Sanchez Watt, Craig Eastmond, Emmanuel Frimpong, Vito Mannone, Ignasi Miquel, Amaury Bischoff and Nicklas Bendtner.

That strategy *failed*. Utterly so. So much so that all their best players from that era couldn't get out of the damn place quick enough - from Van Persie to Nasri to Fabregas to Clichy to Sagna, nobody wanted to stay at a place where the manager believed that unproven youth could substitute for good players. Until they actually started signing big players again (and winning things as a result), they were failures.

And, need I remind everyone, that was with an academy which poached players from around Europe and Africa, and was more highly-regarded then than ours is now. With a smaller talent base to choose from, and the reputational deficiencies our own academy has relative to theirs, there is no reason to expect that the failure rate would massively decrease for us as opposed to how it went for them.

This is a dangerous strategy. It bears repeating, again and again.
 
DubaiSpur said:
How do Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette fit into that interpretation of Wenger's actions?
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Marquee signings to placate the fans. At least until their first loss to a lower half team.

Özil and Sanchez are somewhat comparable to VDV for us. No longer wanted at a big club, but well known. Too bad for them that Özil is a lazy fecker.
 
DubaiSpur said:
How do Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette fit into that interpretation of Wenger's actions?

As for kids coming through, Kane and Winks. That's two. Everyone else in our first eleven + backup eleven was bought. Where is this massively superior record with our youth over our signings?

We should guard against going down the path the scum did, where they tried to delude themselves that their academy had all the answers and ended up trying to replace first-teamers with Nacer Barazite, Gilles Sunu, Sanchez Watt, Craig Eastmond, Emmanuel Frimpong, Vito Mannone, Ignasi Miquel, Amaury Bischoff and Nicklas Bendtner.

That strategy *failed*. Utterly so. So much so that all their best players from that era couldn't get out of the damn place quick enough - from Van Persie to Nasri to Fabregas to Clichy to Sagna, nobody wanted to stay at a place where the manager believed that unproven youth could substitute for good players. Until they actually started signing big players again (and winning things as a result), they were failures.

And, need I remind everyone, that was with an academy which poached players from around Europe and Africa, and was more highly-regarded then than ours is now. With a smaller talent base to choose from, and the reputational deficiencies our own academy has relative to theirs, there is no reason to expect that the failure rate would massively decrease for us as opposed to how it went for them.

This is a dangerous strategy. It bears repeating, again and again.
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Their academy was not respected from what I heard.. it was even held in very low regard and they simply developed no one an just "acquired" other teams players

And ours is held in very high regard from the neutrals I've spoken too and we have a higher success than anyone other than united for creating premier league players

But id do agree with your sentiments that we cannot just rely on the produce of an academy
 
DubaiSpur said:
See, I disagree with this notion that we shouldn't 'buy in' to the Rose argument.

There is absolutely a case to be made for arguing that callow youth like Onomah, Georgiou and KWP, or third choice players picked up in desperation after first-choice targets went elsewhere because of our dilly-dallying...there is a case to be made that they can never fill the boots of the likes of Eriksen, Alli and Walker/Trippier without major drop-offs in short and medium term - and that said drop offs would compromise our league performance to the point where the likes of Alli, Eriksen, Kane et al leave because they don't see us going anywhere but backwards. And, in that respect, a shiny new stadium makes no difference - nobody stays at Schalke because they have a shiny VELTINS-Arena while finishing mid-table, and nobody will stay at Spurs because we finish mid-table while the NFL goes 'ra-ra' at our bowl twice a year.

Rose was spot on when he pointed out that the players want to see incoming quality as much as the fans do, and that they might see the sort of disastrous transfer window this is turning into for us as a major step back and a brutal lack of ambition on the part of the board. It's what we've been saying as fans long before Rose piped up.

The way Rose went about this was wrong - majorly so. But what he said has been a common point of discussion throughout this barren window and more broadly for a long time.

And I deeply dislike the new notion that agreeing with what he says (as opposed to the way he said it) is 'buying into' his arguments - they were around long before him, and have merit on their own terms.
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Mate I don't disagree with the logic of any of his points at all. I totally get them. But I support Spurs, and this interview was designed to serve Danny Rose and his agents, and destabilise the club I love. If any fans buy into it, they are giving the people against the club what they want, and that sucks. It is purely designed to split the fan base and worded in such a way that we will have sympathy. We either fall for it or we get behind the club we support. Of course we want progress.
 
DeleHarry said:
They are going to leave. No-one will hang around forever. However the way football is going, the players will leave much sooner than any of us will want

We will be a Monaco, an Ajax, a PSV. Feeder club for clubs richer than us. We are in a foodchain. We simply have to exploit clubs smaller than us
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At least Monaco won a title!
 
DeleHarry said:
It is

It's just we are so close to winning a league title. Who knows if we will ever be so close again.
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We are close, you can see why richer clubs are trying to destabilise us.

I'm not convinced though that chucking money at the situation would improve our chances of winning the league. I certainly don't think that that things are so bad that we should abandon the strategy that got us in this position.

If we just lose Walker and Sissoko this summer and see three or four first 22 players come in, then I think that we have had a good window.
 
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