Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubaiSpur]

When the diatribe goes into a personal attacks you know it has gone beyond rational arguments into some kind of fixation.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Interesting - wonder if you can see the irony in that, because I could easily claim that the folks desperately defending Levy & ENIC like they were their first-born children have a similar fixation, given how many personal attacks they tend to make on those who are ENIC Out.

 

[DTA]

I'm saying Levy & Lewis are not moral in and of themselves. Let's be clear about the folks who claim moral superiority over Saudi Sportswashing Machine and City's owners - they're not saying Levy & Lewis are *moral* (GHod, I hope not), just that they're less immoral than Salman and Sheikh Mansour.

If you want to boast about that mate, it's your prerogative, but I think it's utterly pointless. 'Our owner is less of a bastard than your owner' does absolutely nothing for me. 'Our owner is moral' would, but as I said - no way anyone could claim that for our lot.

there are degrees though mate, and Salaman very recently had someone murdered and cut into little pieces. He is in control of a country that is as responsible for global terrorism as anyone. He practices gender apartheid, arguably almost as brutal apartheid that South Africa practiced and much more… but yeah Joe Lewis (not levy) made loads of money betting against the pound… so… yeah that makes them totally equivalent

 

[DubaiSpur]

It's more a case of 'the types of people buying clubs like City & Saudi Sportswashing Machine are absolute scum' as opposed toa tit for tat my Dad is better than yours argument.

They are definitely absolute scum. But do you think massive tax evasion is scummy behaviour? What about betting against the pound and causing economic damage to make your billions?

I certainly do - not to the same extent as cutting a man up with a bonesaw or executing gay folks, but certainly nothing that would make me think the fella who only evaded taxes and made his money off other folks' misery was 'good'. Just less of a bastard.

And the broader point is, I don't see the point in claiming that we're morally superior, which is definitely what is happening when folks say we're run 'the right way', or suchlike. We're not, we're just *less scummy*. Maybe a little, maybe a lot, but it does nothing for me as an argument in favour of ENIC - 'owned by less/far less of a bastard' doesn't mean we're moral.

 

[DubaiSpur]

there are degrees though mate, and Salaman very recently had someone murdered and cut into little pieces. He is in control of a country that is as responsible for global terrorism as anyone. He practices gender apartheid, arguably almost as brutal apartheid that South Africa practiced and much more… but yeah Joe Lewis (not levy) made loads of money betting against the pound… so… yeah that makes them totally equivalent

See above mate. They're not the same, but I don't think that makes the difference worth boasting about. Again, 'we're owned by less of a bastard' won't make the top ten in terms of football chants anytime soon.

 

[billyiddo]

Our owners aren't using their personal finances to fund the club, so the source of their wealth isn't of much concern to me.

however the stuff that has been thrown up by yourself and others in an attempt to compare them in terms of morality is so insignificant that it's barely worth commenting on - oh no betting against the £! What monstors!!!

Cop on to yourself ffs

Actual terrorism, murder and barbaric treatment of minorities and you're talking about economics - you need to take a step back from it all if that's where your head takes you

 

[DTA]

See above mate. They're not the same, but I don't think that makes the difference worth boasting about. Again, 'we're owned by less of a bastard' won't make the top ten in terms of football chants anytime soon.

but you admit there are degrees of baàstard right? By your logic Would you be ok with us being take over by literally anyone if they pumped money into us?

where would draw the line?

Stalin?
Hitler?

or is there no line, as long as we win?

that’s not for me mate, maybe if the owners of PSG or even City took us over, yeah ok maybe I could swallow that maybe maybe even Abramovic… but not the Saudi royal family. Nah mate that’s not for me.

 

[parklane1]

Seems like, over the past few years, your suspicion of Levy and Lewis has grown into dislike, then into utter hatred, and has now veered into one-eyed-warped-murder-by-text. I'm glad you are not in this country, so Daniel doesn't have to check under his car for bombs.

He has never forgiven Levy for kicking his dog.

 

[scaramanga]

They are definitely absolute scum.

Yes they are. I, for one, am glad they're nothing to do with Spurs.

But do you think massive tax evasion is scummy behaviour? What about betting against the pound and causing economic damage to make your billions?

Absolutely not. I'd expect anyone with the resources and the judgement to do the same.

 

[DTA]

Depends what you want mate - do you want to foster 'togetherness'? If so, you have no choice but to meet with the Trust, because they are fans of the club and will be around long after Levy & Lewis have made their billions and dumped us. And that's what I thought you said we needed - 'togetherness'.

You don't do that by running away from the fans who will be here long after you because you're scared they'll ask you to ask your boss to cough up some dough.

And believe me, the Trust are not 'Levy outists'. I wish they were, but they're just ordinary folks frustrated with the deadweights in charge. I'm certainly happy they're coming around to seeing things the way I do, though.

how many of the trust board members have been there more than 20 years?

 

[DTA]

Yes they are. I, for one, am glad they're nothing to do with Spurs.


Absolutely not. I'd expect anyone with the resources and the judgement to do the same.

100% agree with this. But it will add it also took bolloöcks to do what he Lewis did.

 

[DubaiSpur]

but you admit there are degrees of baàstard right? By your logic Would you be ok with us being take over by literally anyone if they pumped money into us?

where would draw the line?

Stalin?
Hitler?

or is there no line, as long as we win?

that’s not for me mate, maybe if the owners of PSG or even City took us over, yeah ok maybe I could swallow that maybe maybe even Abramovic… but not the Saudi royal family. Nah mate that’s not for me.

Mate, Salman has started a war in Yemen that has killed tens to hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. His state is a medieval hellhole that disappears people and executes dissidents. He personally had a journalist drugged and dismembered while alive.

The Emiratis eagerly joined in the Saudi war - they have Yemeni blood on their hands, just the same. The Emiratis have executed folks, and forced disappearances of dissidents in the UAE is increasingly common - including the kidnapping and disappearance of the ruler of Dubai's own daughter after she desperately tried to escape. The Emiratis have disappeared countless journalists, and the ones that escape report on the torture and murder common in UAE prisons.

So, why are the Sheikhs of City (i.e, the Abu Dhabi ruling family) any better than Salman? I could come up with a similar list for the Qataris - why are they okay, and why is the football world going to stage a World Cup there next year?

This is a grim sport, and whether it's our tax evader and currency speculator or Salman, mate, the one thing I take exception to is saying we're 'moral' - we're not, we're 'less immoral'. And I just don't find that worth boasting about - yay, our bastard is less of a bastard than the other guy. There are definitely levels mate, but there is a level at which someone is moral - and our owners are below it, much like Salman and Mansour and the rest. They're just in shallower waters than the other two, but it doesn't make much difference to me - and I won't be calling them 'moral' because of it.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Absolutely not. I'd expect anyone with the resources and the judgement to do the same.

Fair enough - I wouldn't be surprised if people with equivalent resources and judgement *did* do the same. Pandora papers, Panama papers, all confirm that they basically do.

And I basically think they're all immoral slime, so it's no skin off my nose.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Actual terrorism, murder and barbaric treatment of minorities and you're talking about economics - you need to take a step back from it all if that's where your head takes you

And massive tax evasion. Don't forget the tax evasion.

By all means, mate, if you want to call them moral paragons, please do. I'm certainly not stopping you - I just don't think they are, and I'm sort of glad I don't have to wrestle with 'oh, they're not as bad as Salman/Sheikh Mansour/the Qataris so they're basically good'.

They aren't.

 

[DTA]

Mate, Salman has started a war in Yemen that has killed tens to hundreds of thousands of men, women and children. His state is a medieval hellhole that disappears people and executes dissidents. He personally had a journalist drugged and dismembered while alive.

The Emiratis eagerly joined in the Saudi war - they have Yemeni blood on their hands, just the same. The Emiratis have executed folks, and forced disappearances of dissidents in the UAE is increasingly common - including the kidnapping and disappearance of the ruler of Dubai's own daughter after she desperately tried to escape. The Emiratis have disappeared countless journalists, and the ones that escape report on the torture and murder common in UAE prisons.

So, why are the Sheikhs of City (i.e, the Abu Dhabi ruling family) any better than Salman? I could come up with a similar list for the Qataris - why are they okay, and why is the football world going to stage a World Cup there next year?

This is a grim sport, and whether it's our tax evader and currency speculator or Salman, mate, the one thing I take exception to is saying we're 'moral' - we're not, we're 'less immoral'. And I just don't find that worth boasting about - yay, our bastard is less of a bastard than the other guy. There are definitely levels mate, but there is a level at which someone is moral - and our owners are below it, much like Salman and Mansour and the rest. They're just in shallower waters than the other two, but it doesn't make much difference to me - and I won't be calling them 'moral' because of it.

UAE is not much more than a satellite state of the Saudis. I’m really not a fan. But a lot of the crimes that you mention were almost certainly ordered or oked by the Saudis. They have very little autonomy.

Quatar is a bit different, in no way moral bastions, in any way shape or form but compared to the Uae and particularly the Saudis they are miles apart.

 

[DubaiSpur]

how many of the trust board members have been there more than 20 years?

At the Trust, or as Spurs fans? I'd wager most of them have been Spurs fans longer than 20 years, mate - if you're asking if they've been at the Trust 20 years, that's not a good thing if they have, since it means there's something wrong there.

 

[DTA]

And massive tax evasion. Don't forget the tax evasion.

By all means, mate, if you want to call them moral paragons, please do. I'm certainly not stopping you - I just don't think they are, and I'm sort of glad I don't have to wrestle with 'oh, they're not as bad as Salman/Sheikh Mansour/the Qataris so they're basically good'.

They aren't.

dude if you punched someone in the face does that make you the same as a serial killer?

 

[DTA]

At the Trust, or as Spurs fans? I'd wager most of them have been Spurs fans longer than 20 years, mate - if you're asking if they've been at the Trust 20 years, that's not a good thing if they have, since it means there's something wrong there.

trust board members, you stated they would be there (I assume in the trust) long after levy has gone.

I have been a spurs fan for longer than 20 years, but fûck me I lm not not qualified more than Levy to tell him what’s best for the club.

 

[parklane1]

At the Trust, or as Spurs fans? I'd wager most of them have been Spurs fans longer than 20 years, mate - if you're asking if they've been at the Trust 20 years, that's not a good thing if they have, since it means there's something wrong there.

Its pretty obvious to the majority of Spurs fans that there is something wrong there. They are full of their own importance and believe in fairytails.

 

[DubaiSpur]

UAE is not much more than a satellite state of the Saudis. I’m really not a fan. But a lot of the crimes that you mention were almost certainly ordered or oked by the Saudis. They have very little autonomy.

Quatar is a bit different, in no way moral bastions, in any way shape or form but compared to the Uae and particularly the Saudis they are miles apart.

Mate, I lived in the UAE. Believe me, the Saudis had nothing to do with how the UAE murdered journalists, disappeared ordinary people or tortured children in its prisons.They may have followed Riyadh's lead in Yemen (and even there, I don't think it quite worked that way - the most bloodthirsty mercenaries were Emirati, not Saudi). But SA had nothing to do with their domestic policy.

I'm not saying you're a fan - I don't think you're a fan of despots at all. But I'm pointing out how the perceptions are different, when really they're all scumbags - and in the case of the UAE and Saudi Arabia, literally equivalent scumbags, except the UAE lets more Westerners wear shorts on the beach so they have a slightly gentler image.

I never lived in the expensive, Westernized bits of Dubai - I lived in the poor neighborhoods of Karama, Jebel Ali and Deira. Life was alright, as long as you kept your head down. But if you didn't, you basically had no rights and an Emirati could have you tossed in prison for any reason at all. And if you were a critical journalist, GHod save you if the government decided it didn't like you.

If you hate the idea of Salman owning a club, you should hate the idea of Mansour owning a club. And the Qataris, that lovely state where homosexuality still earns the death penalty and torture is a byword for prison life. They tortured a journalist to death in their prisons a little over a year ago - come on, they're no different.

 

[DubaiSpur]

trust board members, you stated they would be there (I assume in the trust) long after levy has gone.

I have been a spurs fan for longer than 20 years, but fûck me I lm not not qualified more than Levy to tell him what’s best for the club.

Nah - you misunderstood, or I was unclear, mate. They will be at Spurs, long after Levy makes his enormous profit and sods off with Lewis.

As for whether you're more qualified than Levy, I'd say instead that you have more of a stake in the club than he does, because you care about it as a community and a sporting entity and not a line on Joe Lewis' portfolio.