Daniel Levy - Chairman

[parklane1]

We'll still be paying for that infamous summer in 10 years time according to some, plus blaming Levy despite plenty of ex-Spurs players have stated that Poch was offered plenty of players but turned them down. But that doesn't fit the narrative...

You know better then to bring facts into a slagging of of Levy.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I think what @thfcsteff is trying to say is that we (i.e. Levy/ENIC) are very quick off the mark with signing investment/for the future players who can bring us profit if they do well and/or arte low risk punts if they dob't but are less 'savvy' when it comes to recruiting players to push us onwards and upwards for the here and now.

This is a bad thing? A legit reason to criticise, or just a good ol winge?

As an example: Clarke was not a signing Pochettino wanted, yet he was the very first signing the club made after the period of zero signings over 18 months (including the infamous summer 2018 no-transfer window which we are still paying for imo).

Clarke was playing for Biesla. For all you know Biesla tipped Poch off, or maybe Poch was helping his mate out with this transfer. "Clarke was not a signing Pochettino wanted" is a naive statement, and probably not true. No way would Levy bring in a player Poch actively didn't want.

Seems like a lot of moany fans at the moment. When things are not working out, someone needs to be blamed? Look at the bigger picture and we are still in a fantastic position. Mourinho was a mistake. I didn't want Poch sacked and replaced with Mourinho, but Levy had an itch to scratch, and maybe it might have worked out with more time or a better defense. But there is no going back, only forwards. And Levy has shown time and again he's a competent leader of this football club.

 

[glorygloryeze]

This is a bad thing? A legit reason to criticise, or just a good ol winge?

As i've said, in or of itself it is no bad thing, but managers like Poch will eventually get tired of asking for the likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, etc to try and really push the team/club upwards and instead get offered/given the lies of N'Jie, N'Koudou or Clarke (again players who have 'potential' and/or are cheap instead of more proven players).
We can't complain about 'bottling it' on the pitch if we are 'bottling it' in the way we go about our transfers for the manager at the time (a manager who was proving himself capable of pushing the team/club onwards and publicly stated he wanted the club to 'act like a big club')

Clarke was playing for Biesla. For all you know Biesla tipped Poch off, or maybe Poch was helping his mate out with this transfer. "Clarke was not a signing Pochettino wanted" is a naive statement, and probably not true. No way would Levy bring in a player Poch actively didn't want.

Seems like a lot of moany fans at the moment. When things are not working out, someone needs to be blamed? Look at the bigger picture and we are still in a fantastic position. Mourinho was a mistake. I didn't want Poch sacked and replaced with Mourinho, but Levy had an itch to scratch, and maybe it might have worked out with more time or a better defense. But there is no going back, only forwards. And Levy has shown time and again he's a competent leader of this football club.

I think i'll just leave this article from a decent jouno when comes to Sours-related news here: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ottenham-tension-arsenal-jack-clarke-transfer

Happy for you to interpret it and say which bits are wrong etc

 

[Robspur12]

This is a bad thing? A legit reason to criticise, or just a good ol winge?



Clarke was playing for Biesla. For all you know Biesla tipped Poch off, or maybe Poch was helping his mate out with this transfer. "Clarke was not a signing Pochettino wanted" is a naive statement, and probably not true. No way would Levy bring in a player Poch actively didn't want.

Seems like a lot of moany fans at the moment. When things are not working out, someone needs to be blamed? Look at the bigger picture and we are still in a fantastic position. Mourinho was a mistake. I didn't want Poch sacked and replaced with Mourinho, but Levy had an itch to scratch, and maybe it might have worked out with more time or a better defense. But there is no going back, only forwards. And Levy has shown time and again he's a competent leader of this football club.

Ha all football fans moan to a greater or lesser extent, it comes with being passionate about your club. I don't think any of the criticisms levelled at Levy are personal. I doubt any one on here knows him closely.

But 20 years with 9 or 11 managers of different styles and degrees of success before they are appointed and 1 trophy to show for it is a record that should be scrutinized and it is absolutely right to question could things have been done better on the football side of things.

Levy, has no doubt, grown the club off the pitch. But he has also massively grown his own investment without really sticking in his or Joe Lewis's money.

I am sick of us being also rans on the football pitch. The laughing stock of London. Who could we appoint as manager now who would be different to who we have appointed before? We have had the project type managers, the old school English ones, and in Jose the trophy winning pedigree one. All failed with Poch coming the closest to ending the drought. Which is why I love the guy so much.

Something else has to change and it's not just the manager and or the players. Levy has to look at his approach too. It is absurd that there are fans not questioning that or worse still criticising anyone who is questioning Levy as if alternative opinions will not be tolerated.

 

[SpurMeUp]

As i've said, in or of itself it is no bad thing, but managers like Poch will eventually get tired of asking for the likes of Mane, Wijnaldum, etc to try and really push the team/club upwards and instead get offered/given the lies of N'Jie, N'Koudou or Clarke (again players who have 'potential' and/or are cheap instead of more proven players).
We can't complain about 'bottling it' on the pitch if we are 'bottling it' in the way we go about our transfers for the manager at the time (a manager who was proving himself capable of pushing the team/club onwards and publicly stated he wanted the club to 'act like a big club')

N'Jie, N'Koudou were from a different period. A total waste of time granted. I have no idea what we saw in them. But easy to say in hindsight. At the same time I flagged up Adama Traore who'd just been relegated. Seemed like a far more exciting punt than these French players. I was shot down, most called Traore a spinter with no talent etc etc. The point is, it is very easy to look back in hindsight. N'Jie and N'Koudou wouldn't have cost much.

By your logic, we would never have signed Bale and many of the other hits.

I think i'll just leave this article from a decent jouno when comes to Sours-related news here: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ottenham-tension-arsenal-jack-clarke-transfer

Happy for you to interpret it and say which bits are wrong etc

I don't think the journo really knows exactly what went on either. He says it is inconceivable that Poch didn't connect with Biesla re. Clarke. And of course Poch would have spoken to Levy. These are two incontestable facts. So Poch would have known he was getting Clarke, and known about him from Beisla. Maybe Poch was trying to help Biesla out with funds or had a different plan on how to structure the deal, we and the journo don't really know. What we do know is Poch would have known about Clarke, and talked with Biesla and Levy. Where things didn't work out we can only speculate, as this journo is. You simply reach a conclusion that fits your narrative.

Clarke can still come good, and we won't lose much on him if we do.

I agree our recruitment has not been as good in the last 5 years. But you don't really know who was driving recruitment. You can be sure Poch played a major role, however.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Ha all football fans moan to a greater or lesser extent, it comes with being passionate about your club. I don't think any of the criticisms levelled at Levy are personal. I doubt any one on here knows him closely.

But 20 years with 9 or 11 managers of different styles and degrees of success before they are appointed and 1 trophy to show for it is a record that should be scrutinized and it is absolutely right to question could things have been done better on the football side of things.

Levy, has no doubt, grown the club off the pitch. But he has also massively grown his own investment without really sticking in his or Joe Lewis's money.

I am sick of us being also rans on the football pitch. The laughing stock of London. Who could we appoint as manager now who would be different to who we have appointed before? We have had the project type managers, the old school English ones, and in Jose the trophy winning pedigree one. All failed with Poch coming the closest to ending the drought. Which is why I love the guy so much.

Something else has to change and it's not just the manager and or the players. Levy has to look at his approach too. It is absurd that there are fans not questioning that or worse still criticising anyone who is questioning Levy as if alternative opinions will not be tolerated.

1. The fixation with silverware is just rod - to actually beat yourself up. I don't watch Spurs to see them lift a cup. If that is all that is of interest support city.

2. We have been getting to finals. It's not like we have been midtable and not in the mix. Levy can't kick the balls, he can only facilitate us being in and amongst the top - and he has done that. Plus built a stadium and training complex, with less money because of the build, with doped clubs around us.

3. From the comments on here, anyone would think all the other clubs are just sitting on their arse waiting for us to improve and win things. You don't think every club is working tirelessly to get the best players, and win silverware?

Pre-Levy we were midtable, we could have easily had a similar trajectory to Everton. Or Villa for that matter. Do I think our fans are entitled? Absolutely. And its Levy that has given them these more lofty expectations. The irony is, the man who's delivered this higher platform from which to aspire, takes the blame from those 'fans' who cry because we didn't win a cup.

 

[glorygloryeze]

N'Jie, N'Koudou were from a different period. A total waste of time granted. I have no idea what we saw in them. But easy to say in hindsight. At the same time I flagged up Adama Traore who'd just been relegated. Seemed like a far more exciting punt than these French players. I was shot down, most called Traore a spinter with no talent etc etc. The point is, it is very easy to look back in hindsight. N'Jie and N'Koudou wouldn't have cost much.

By your logic, we would never have signed Bale and many of the other hits.

You still seem to be missing my point: it's not that young/cheap punts are bad, it's if you can't elevate from totally doing such. If you've elevated your team using such, proving your coaching credentials along the way, you will at some point want the club to prove that they can back you with more seasoned/ready to go players that elevate the first team. Too often Levy when it comes to the crunch shows he's not so sharp on these types but is much more active (comfortable?) on the young/cheap/less risky punts.

I can't put it any more clearly; if you disagree, that's fine, but please stop misrepresenting what i'm saying, which is that at some point a manager in Poch's position would want to dine nearer the top table instead of trying to compete with the likes of United, City, Chelsea etc (which he was actually doing) but with effectively his hands toed behind his back.
If things don't change on that front, then expect us not to be able to attract the kind of coaches we would like to get us back competing in the way we did back then.

I don't think the journo really knows exactly what went on either. He says it is inconceivable that Poch didn't connect with Biesla re. Clarke. And of course Poch would have spoken to Levy. These are two incontestable facts. So Poch would have known he was getting Clarke, and known about him from Beisla. Maybe Poch was trying to help Biesla out with funds or had a different plan on how to structure the deal, we and the journo don't really know. What we do know is Poch would have known about Clarke, and talked with Biesla and Levy. Where things didn't work out we can only speculate, as this journo is. You simply reach a conclusion that fits your narrative.

Clarke can still come good, and we won't lose much on him if we do.

I agree our winkietossiewoo has not been as good in the last 5 years. But you don't really know who was driving winkietossiewoo. You can be sure Poch played a major role, however.

Clarke was our first signing after we had 18 months of inactivity and afte we'd made it to a CL final against all odds. And Poch was not a manager that asked playrs to be brought in to then send them on loan. I think that tells its own story

 

[Robspur12]

1. The fixation with silverware is just rod - to actually beat yourself up. I don't watch Spurs to see them lift a cup. If that is all that is of interest support city.

2. We have been getting to finals. It's not like we have been midtable and not in the mix. Levy can't kick the balls, he can only facilitate us being in and amongst the top - and he has done that. Plus built a stadium and training complex, with less money because of the build, with doped clubs around us.

3. From the comments on here, anyone would think all the other clubs are just sitting on their arse waiting for us to improve and win things. You don't think club is working tirelessly to get the best players, and win silverware?

Pre-Levy we were midtable, we could have easily had a similar trajectory to Everton. Or Villa for that matter. Do I think our fans are entitled? Absolutely. And its Levy that has given them these more lofty expectations. The irony is, the man who's delivered this higher platform from which to aspire, takes the blame from those 'fans' who cry because we didn't win a cup.

Wow your post absolutely proves my point. Crying about not winning a cup? What the hell do you support a football team for in the PL? To celebrate its organic growth or to hope for success to celebrate? Spurs have been around a lot longer than ENIC and were winning trophies and will be around long after. I want my club to win trophies, not every season, hell once every 10 years if it's a big one. That's not a crime it's called being a fan.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Wow your post absolutely proves my point. Crying about not winning a cup? What the hell do you support a football team for in the PL? To celebrate its organic growth or to hope for success to celebrate? Spurs have been around a lot longer than ENIC and were winning trophies and will be around long after. I want my club to win trophies, not every season, hell once every 10 years if it's a big one. That's not a crime it's called being a fan.

Then you are destined to be disappointed. Look at the data: there are what 4-5 cups up for grabs a season. 80% of the time a team with deep pockets wins the cup. While Levy has effectively 'deepened' our pockets, we are not at the elite clubs level yet with plenty of debt. Yet we've been in the mix. If you don't enjoy watching football, and just want to see us lifting a cup, then you are focused on the destination and not the journey.

 

[Robspur12]

Then you are destined to be disappointed. Look at the data: there are what 4-5 cups up for grabs a season. 80% of the time a team with deep pockets wins the cup. If you don't enjoy watching football, and just want to see us lifting a cup, then you are focused on the outcome and not the journey.

Oh behave! We are not Accrington Stanley. Poch showed us what is possible we just need to show ambition at crucial moments. As Poch said. Do you know your Spurs history? We won an FA cup as a NON League club. Daring is our motto. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave with some of the brick spouted on here.

 

[billyiddo]

Wow your post absolutely proves my point. Crying about not winning a cup? What the hell do you support a football team for in the PL? To celebrate its organic growth or to hope for success to celebrate? Spurs have been around a lot longer than ENIC and were winning trophies and will be around long after. I want my club to win trophies, not every season, hell once every 10 years if it's a big one. That's not a crime it's called being a fan.

I posted this in response to someone else earlier in the thread, not sure if you saw it but i think it's apt here...

The reason I'm not critical of the club over our trophy record is the same reason I'm not critical of the managers for it either - we have not been a club that spends to the level that those who regularly win do. Since Levy arrived at Tottenham there have been 54 domestic trophies on offer, 45 of them won by the OG Sky top 4 + City the other 9 were solitary wins. Remove the League Cup and only 3 of 36 trophies were won by non OG + City clubs. So until we have the financial clout that those clubs do, afaic, there is no blame to be had regarding our lack of trophies as we just aren't a rich enough club to expect a share of the spoils. The stadium will put us at that level though, I dunno what effect COVID will have but in the 2 years since moving in we were 4th highest net spenders in the league, which is a huge leap forward from where we were in the 5+ years previous and if our wage budget increases to a similar level then we will be on a level that we can start to aim set the bar at that level.

The issue regarding trophies isn't one with Levy or our managers, that's a misdirection, it's just a fact of the modern game that the only teams that stand a chance are those with the big turnovers and big budgets - going by the numbers there's nothing to suggest we would have done better with different owners.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Oh behave! We are not Accrington Stanley. Poch showed us what is possible we just need to show ambition at crucial moments. As Poch said. Do you know your Spurs history? We won an FA cup as a NON League club. Daring is our motto. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave with some of the brick spouted on here.

Absolutely; showing footballing ambition at crucial moments is key (and what too often Levy/ENIC have lacked when it's come to the crunch imo)

 

[SpurMeUp]

Oh behave! We are not Accrington Stanley. Poch showed us what is possible we just need to show ambition at the right time. Do you know your Spurs history? We won an FA cup as a NON League club. Daring is our motto. Bill Nicholson will be turning in his grave with some of the brick spouted on here.

The fact is, Levy has got Spurs closer to being able to compete with the top echelon. Most chairmen of midtable sides have not done as well. And he's done it with the backdrop of dropped clubs and building a stadium.

The detail about why transfers work or don't work is fascinating. We have had some spectacular successes and failures over Levy's tenure (Bale vs D Bently say). The main thing is, he is always trying. Pushing for an edge. Yes improvements can and should be made. By all means isolate what they are. We are a community. The club is aware of what fans think.

 

[Robspur12]

I posted this in response to someone else earlier in the thread, not sure if you saw it but i think it's apt here...



The issue regarding trophies isn't one with Levy or our managers, that's a misdirection, it's just a fact of the modern game that the only teams that stand a chance are those with the big turnovers and big budgets - going by the numbers there's nothing to suggest we would have done better with different owners.

A counterfactual argument regarding different owners is difficult. I am not really suggesting that we get rid of Levy and ENIC. We couldn't even if we wanted to.

I agree the balance has not been in our favour given the transfer fees and wages. But given the massive increase in equity in the club since ENIC took over we should be able to compete with our rivals and at least nick a trophy from time to time. Poch showed he could get a team to be title challengers, and to a Champions League final on a relative shoe string. Leicester showed you can win the league. Wigan won an FA cup. So right manager and investment at crucial times means it's possible to win a trophy. As @Finney Is Back put very eloquently in previous posts it is certainly partially down to the choices made by ENIC. We are talking about a club whose history was built on daring. We shouldn't forget that...

 

[Jurgen the German]

Poch was never really comfortable with speaking to the press in English. That's why he didn't do it at Southampton. I think for the very reason that he was not comfortable with the nuances of the language and things he said could be misconstrued. As I believed they were before the Champions League final.

The point about him saying things but not meaning them in a certain way is a fair argument in principle. The part where I push back against that is people only used that defence whenever it was something that could possibly be interpreted as negative. Whenever it was something positive then it was always crystal clear. I recall an occasion towards the end of his time with us when he claimed the atmosphere inside the ground wasn’t helping the team. He was clearly sending a message to the fans to get behind the team. Funny that no one claimed on that occasion that his quotes were taken out of context or that the language barrier was an issue. The line was only trotted out when Poch said something that could show him in a potentially bad light.

 

[SteveAWOL]

Poch was never really comfortable with speaking to the press in English. That's why he didn't do it at Southampton. I think for the very reason that he was not comfortable with the nuances of the language and things he said could be misconstrued. As I believed they were before the Champions League final.

I wonder why Pochettino does his PSG press conferences in English rather than his native Spanish? As surely the French hate us more!

 

[thfcsteff]

Then you are destined to be disappointed. Look at the data: there are what 4-5 cups up for grabs a season. 80% of the time a team with deep pockets wins the cup. While Levy has effectively 'deepened' our pockets, we are not at the elite clubs level yet with plenty of debt. Yet we've been in the mix. If you don't enjoy watching football, and just want to see us lifting a cup, then you are focused on the destination and not the journey.

First of all, allow me to reply to your assertion that I was having a "good ol' moan"...absolutely not. I've said the same for years and years. I think Levy has done some great things, however he also should not be in a DoF like position. It causes problems.

I'd like to dispense with going back and forth on your other previous comments if I may (many have been rinsed so many times before) and focus on the bold-face above.

I am ALL about the journey. I am NOT a trophy nonce. I want us to win them, absolutely, but not at the expense of selling our souls to a devil, or playing like brick and winning. I swallowed many ounces of bile to give Mourinho a chance. He was unequivocally NOT my choice, and as has oft been stated here, I consider sacking Pochettino to be the gravest of errors (I will explain why - it is simple). Mourinho is a specific type of manager who requires certain things. And I don't know who lied to who at the love in, but somewhere, Daniel and Jose didn't sing from the same hymn book. Mourinho hinted that Bergwijn was not his first choice; an early warning. And hey, as much as I despise him, given that he was our manager, he deserved the sort of backing he requires. In the sense, I have a degree of sympathy for him (albeit if he was lying when he said he was happy with the squad countless times, then he is a bigger tool than I thought). Again, I personally loved Bale's return, but if the manager wanted Skriner more, then Levy was obliged to make that happen. I love Dele dearly, but if the manager wanted him out in Jan, then loan him out. Daniel should NOT be playing DoF. No way. Too many times it has cost us...

...and this is where my Poch thing lies.
I said it on the pod and I believe fully that no-one really appreciates the sheer enormity and magnitude of what he built in the speed he built it under the constraints we had (no fault of Levy in many ways as he was stadium focussed and he delivered!). But he should NOT have got rid of a DoF during the build, or at least, he should've replaced him (Hitchen is not a real DoF he is a scout in my eyes). You talk about the journey, the journey we were on with Poch was incredible. And IF the end had naturally come, then it should've ended on June 2nd, 3rd, 5th whatever, 2019. To have the reunion dinner and re-commit to him building again, all the while with a finger in Jose's pie, was IMO a huge, huge mistake, and one we will pay for for several more years.

I am all in for the journey again, and I'll take that journey with young progressive, brilliant. But Levy MUST get a DoF in ASAP.

In the spirit of discussion, as always mate...

 

[thfcsteff]

The fact is, Levy has got Spurs closer to being able to compete with the top echelon. Most chairmen of midtable sides have not done as well. And he's done it with the backdrop of dropped clubs and building a stadium.

The detail about why transfers work or don't work is fascinating. We have had some spectacular successes and failures over Levy's tenure (Bale vs D Bently say). The main thing is, he is always trying. Pushing for an edge. Yes improvements can and should be made. By all means isolate what they are. We are a community. The club is aware of what fans think.

I think Levy has delivered a brilliant stadium and a cashcow for someone once Covid falls away/vaxs are overwhelming. And Levy had the bravery and foresight to appoint Poch; what a brilliant choice! But let's make sure we recognize that Poch was the one who got us competing with the top echelon, and he did so ahead of any schedule the club anticipated. It was beautiful until it wasn't sadly...

 

[metalgear]

There is always a serious problem when you can't find who's accountable for it. I think Levy, the CFO and whoever can't see the problem. I valued Mourinho mostly for that - to show management that our transfers suck. But it looks like the transfer committee won and do not realise that they themselves are the problem. Levy has to take full responsibility for this but he seems oblivious and makes no mention about it. High time that someone - a journalist, a blogger or even the THFC Trust or even the BBC give us an inside view of how our transfer committee works and why no one has claimed any responsibility for decisions (both good and bad).

 

[SteveAWOL]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1386958844828405761