Name a top European team that is successful who don't use these tactics.
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Cynical fouls...
- Thread starter the dza
- Start date
Name a top European team that is successful who don't use these tactics.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
I don't care about other teams. I care about Spurs. Doing things in the right way and all that. Teams can use those tactics all they want. Some successful teams have done it on having a miserly defence and nicking the odd goal.
What had been described just would be ugly, ugly football.
PochettinoPochettinoPochettino
Serge Aurier
We already have it with that donkey Walker. No, well that's actually needless fouls on the edge of the box.
Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
I don't believe "doing things the right way" is possible any longer
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
If that is the case, then that is unfortunate. I'd still rather us be at the lower end of the cynicism scale though.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I used to think like this, but I want to see Spurs win trophies one day, consistently, if that means being more cynical within reason then I'm all for it. You can't tell me we don't employ such tactics at certain times; Vertonghen knows how to buy fouls and get players into trouble, Mason contributed to Benteke getting a red card against us last season, not to mention we've had players who have dived a fair bit.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
We have and I don't like it when we do. I accept that it is part of the game now, so called gamesmanship. But I dislike it immensely. I hate it when players crowd the referee, I don't like it when players dive, I don't like it when our managers put pressure on the referees. I'm prepared to accept the odd cynical foul, but that is just an admission that you've been got the better of.
One of the things that we have been known for is for having players that played within the rules of the game but were competitive. Mackay as an example. Mabbut. Ledley. One of the things that I most admire Ledley for is Henry's quote.
"I don't like defenders who hold the shirts of other players. The only defender here who doesn't do that and sometimes still gets the ball off my feet easily is Ledley King.
"He is the only guy who doesn't hold players. He will get the ball off you without you even noticing. For me, that is a good defender.
"He plays without any contact yet is somehow still strong and gets the ball without doing any fouls."
That's why he was the rolls-royce of a player that he was. These are the values that I like about our club. I want us to win trophies as well, but our failure to win trophies is not down to the fact that are less cynical. It's because we don't have the best players!
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Agree with a lot of this, but I'm also a pragmatist. Look at Barcelona and Real Madrid, they win because they have the best players. but being cyncial cheats also gains them valuable points. Not saying I want us to be that extreme but you get the idea. If Poch can highlight refereeing mistakes all the while gaining us a few extra points then I need TP for my bunghole.
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
But Barcelona will be known as the better team because they are less cynical arguably!
mudshark
Chris Armstrong
There have been players here who earned themselves a reputation for cheating, rightly or wrongly. I remember all the fuss about Zokora's debut (although at least there was a fuss), and then there was Bale, of course. Even Defoe wasn't above it. I actually don't think Bale did dive half the time (although he certainly was guilty on a few occasions); I think in his case, much of it was driven by rival managers trying to add fuel to the fire. I just don't like to see it, though. I'd much rather we stuck to a code of honour than one of cynicism and cheating, especially one dressed up as pragmatism; that's just part of a self-fulfilling prophecy, a race to the bottom. In the main, I think we can still say we do, and we're bigger and better than a lot of others because of it. Just because something gains you an advantage doesn't mean you should do it. Successful bank robbers might disagree, but I'd rather we went with our collective conscience. Just my personal opinion.
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Find it so strange that fans are against this. I want us to play good football but I want players who intimidate opponents and who are nasty off the ball. People who will take a yellow card for the team and who know how to break up the play.
Having a team set up with players like that shouldn't be a discussion, it should be a necessity.
Having a team set up with players like that shouldn't be a discussion, it should be a necessity.
Football is all about advantages and as a defender intimidating your opponent, leaving one on him early doors and disruption their momentum is a a legitimate part of the game that they have to deal with. Your view is idealistic and not reflective of real football
Gazzasrightboot
Pascal Chimbonda
There is an element of that that is part of the game. I'm saying I don't like it, but accept that it is a part of the game. However, there are different variants of cynicism/gamesmanship. I would like us to be near the bottom of that scale and not near the top. I'm being "pragmatic" to a point and just saying what I think that point is. I don't want to see us scything down players and being the team that commits the most amount of fouls.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Really, why if you think we play " real football" now are they so many saying we should change the way we play ( ie cheat).
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
Well It would have taken someone in the stands with a sniper rifle to take him down, as there was no one even close to him before he was at the 16 yard box