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Coronavirus

glorygloryeze said:
Haha, those factcheckers again eh? :)

Now imagine if they used the same approach about "missing context" to the daily covid case numbers or the daily covid deaths? :)

If you are using such factcheckers to claim facts related to any numbers 'don't make sense' given the above double-standard from Reuters about 'context' then that says everything about why this discussion should end.

Of course, if you are able to show me a link where Reuters make a point to 'put context' on the UK's daily covid case numbers and deaths (especially when they were used to justify lockdowns) then we can continue discussing... :)
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I am going to have to bow out to your greater knowledge on this one :cool:
 
SpurMeUp said:
I am going to have to bow out to your greater knowledge on this one :cool:
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so, question:

i don't get what's happening with COVID anymore? why's it just bouncing around like this nowadays? surely that's good right? or is it simply a lack of testing so true number masked?

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glorygloryeze said:
Perhaps you missed the first article i quoted..i'll quote again:


"While focus remains firmly fixed on Covid-19, a second health crisis is quietly emerging in Britain. Since the beginning of July, there have been thousands of excess deaths that were not caused by coronavirus.

According to health experts, this is highly unusual for the summer. Although excess deaths are expected during the winter months, when cold weather and seasonal infections combine to place pressure on the NHS, summer generally sees a lull.

This year is a worrying outlier.

According to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), since July 2 there have been 9,619 excess deaths in England and Wales, of which 48 per cent (4,635) were not caused by Covid-19.

So if all these extra people are not dying from coronavirus, what is killing them?

Data from Public Health England (PHE) shows that during that period there were 2,103 extra death registrations with ischemic heart disease, 1,552 with heart failure, as well as an extra 760 deaths with cerebrovascular diseases such as stroke and aneurysm and 3,915 with other circulatory diseases.

Acute and chronic respiratory infections were also up with 3,416 more mentions on death certificates than expected since the start of July, while there have been 1,234 extra urinary system disease deaths, 324 with cirrhosis and liver disease and 1,905 with diabetes.

Alarmingly, many of these conditions saw the biggest drops in diagnosis in 2020, as the NHS struggled to cope with the pandemic."

So conditions for which there was ACTUALLY A DROP IN DIAGNOSES in 2020 are now part of the excess deaths not linked to covid-19...as i say, food for thought...
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Due to people not wanting to go to the hospitals and less face to face appointments with doctors (due to the pandemic). There was a fall in diagnosis in 2020.
We also know covid damages the heart and other organs.

The big one is going to be cancer in a couple of years. People that weren't diagnosed and treated early, will be worse effected.

Moderna has been seen to cause rare cases of mydiocharditis, though. Again these are rare cases.
 
Diamond Lights said:
so, question:

i don't get what's happening with COVID anymore? why's it just bouncing around like this nowadays? surely that's good right? or is it simply a lack of testing so true number masked?

View attachment 12884
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It's bouncing about for a number of reasons. Schools going back, vaccine immunity waning, finding pockets of people not vaccinated, weather.
Due to the contagiousness of the delta variant it's unlikely we'll get herd immunity. So it will stay endemic. But as people have more immunity either from vaccine or having had it, it will be milder. More like a cold or even asymptomatic. It's just something we're going to have to live with now.
 
Lilbaz said:
Due to people not wanting to go to the hospitals and less face to face appointments with doctors (due to the pandemic). There was a fall in diagnosis in 2020.
We also know covid damages the heart and other organs.


The big one is going to be cancer in a couple of years. People that weren't diagnosed and treated early, will be worse effected.
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Not sure i go totally with that tbh; certainly not with regards to deaths: heart attacks and other circulatory conditions are often ones that you'll seek emergency help for when symptoms appear: you are not going to postpone calling an ambulance because you can't see a GP.

If anything such deaths should have INCREASED when the UK was in those first months of lockdown. Partly because of not being able to seek help at a stage when maybe only minor symptoms are being seen, but also because of isolation, depression etc being exacerbated by lockdown and one of the ways often people might have coped would be excessive fast food eating and binge drinking - both of which you'd think would lead to more heart attacks, strokes and the like over the 2020 period as a whole.

Now the UK has been open for several months heart attacks should not be going up per say.
Covid indeed often causes damaghes to the heart and other organs, so unless you are saying heart attack and other circulatory related deaths were classified last year as "Covid" and are not being in the same way now, again i don't think a decrease and then an increase in such deaths is what should be seen.

I agree with your comments on Cancer diagnoses: unlike heart disease etc, these are far more likely to not need emergency care when symptoms first appear and there is certainly a ticking time bomb with regards to future cancer deaths which could have been prevented if people had their regular check-ups as normal (which obviously didn't happen during lockdowns and less so since due to backlogs, changes in access to GPs etc..)

Lilbaz said:
Moderna has been seen to cause rare cases of mydiocharditis, though. Again these are rare cases.
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I think if we look back over time we will see that all the major mRNA vaccines have had warnings related to "rare" heart inflammation-related issues. That has certainly been the case with Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson as well as Moderna...
 
glorygloryeze said:
Not sure i go totally with that tbh; certainly not with regards to deaths: heart attacks and other circulatory conditions are often ones that you'll seek emergency help for when symptoms appear: you are not going to postpone calling an ambulance because you can't see a GP.

If anything such deaths should have INCREASED when the UK was in those first months of lockdown. Partly because of not being able to seek help at a stage when maybe only minor symptoms are being seen, but also because of isolation, depression etc being exacerbated by lockdown and one of the ways often people might have coped would be excessive fast food eating and binge drinking - both of which you'd think would lead to more heart attacks, strokes and the like over the 2020 period as a whole.

Now the UK has been open for several months heart attacks should not be going up per say.
Covid indeed often causes damaghes to the heart and other organs, so unless you are saying heart attack and other circulatory related deaths were classified last year as "Covid" and are not being in the same way now, again i don't think a decrease and then an increase in such deaths is what should be seen.

I agree with your comments on Cancer diagnoses: unlike heart disease etc, these are far more likely to not need emergency care when symptoms first appear and there is certainly a ticking time bomb with regards to future cancer deaths which could have been prevented if people had their regular check-ups as normal (which obviously didn't happen during lockdowns and less so since due to backlogs, changes in access to GPs etc..)



I think if we look back over time we will see that all the major mRNA vaccines have had warnings related to "rare" heart inflammation-related issues. That has certainly been the case with Pfizer, Johnson and Johnson as well as Moderna...
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They did increase, because people delayed diagnosis. This article from the bhf was written in october last year. Before vaccines came out.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/n...t-and-circulatory-disease-deaths-in-under-65s
 
Lilbaz said:
They did increase, because people delayed diagnosis. This article from the bhf was written in october last year. Before vaccines came out.
https://www.bhf.org.uk/what-we-do/n...t-and-circulatory-disease-deaths-in-under-65s
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Thanks for the link; that's very interesting.
What has to be borne in mind, however, is that BHF is talking about a rise in deaths from heart disease in the under-65s there whilst the Telegraph article is talking about deaths from that and other circulatory diseases across all ages and also across a wider timeframe.
 
Saw that GP's are going to get a sweetner to start seeing people face to face again rather than over the phone
How about if you don't you could get struck off you lazy clams
 
markysimmo said:
Saw that GP's are going to get a sweetner to start seeing people face to face again rather than over the phone
How about if you don't you could get struck off you lazy clams
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They have a good racket going.

Said a few years ago when they were moaning about being underpaid. Our local surgery when their big pay rise came in a load went part time. The receptionist told me of the 8 GP's only 1 is full time.

I imagine they are off working private locum work on their days off. Which in turn costs the NHS more so means less is available for front line services.
 
Sydney has already opened up at 70% double vaxxed, hitting 80% today I think. Likely end vaccination rate of over 90%. Accepting international travel without hotel quarantine as of 1 November.

Melbourne is likely to hit 70% a week today, 80% two after that. This is the light at the end of a long tunnel.

Canberra is apparently going to achieve 99% double vaxxed, a world record apparently (maybe equal with Doha I think).

Roll on summer.
 
awesome dawson said:
Sydney has already opened up at 70% double vaxxed, hitting 80% today I think. Likely end vaccination rate of over 90%. Accepting international travel without hotel quarantine as of 1 November.

Melbourne is likely to hit 70% a week today, 80% two after that. This is the light at the end of a long tunnel.

Canberra is apparently going to achieve 99% double vaxxed, a world record apparently (maybe equal with Doha I think).

Roll on summer.
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Really hoping one of my best mates will be able to fly over from Melbourne for my wedding next May
 
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