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Coronavirus

P.D. said:
Klopp said he's not releasing any players that have to quarantine on return, fair enough to me.

They should just cancel this round - completely dumb to send people flying all over.
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Is it bad that my first thought was 'hmmm Colombia?'
 
djp82 said:
Madness really . Did the last break see an increase in cases amongst players.

Plus fitting more games in to already packed schedules and tired players getting flogged.

Can’t stand international football.
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Yep
We had players getting advised they had Covid at half time in a game vs Ireland IIRC
 
What is interesting is I believe in the last prem numbers there were 2 cases
If there is some kind of ramp up after internationals it highlights the whole farcical nature of it
The issue of course is most international federations are bankrupt and need the TV £££
 
djp82 said:
Madness really . Did the last break see an increase in cases amongst players.

Plus fitting more games in to already packed schedules and tired players getting flogged.

Can’t stand international football.
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How it used to work was ok. 6 games a season and a summer tournament every other summer. Was never to much football to get bored of.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s the issue when a system is designed by civil servants and their mates not experts
The only thing that has gone right has been the vaccine programme as it was led by experts from industry
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Danishfurniturelover said:
Bang on.

Now do we think given this new information the government are going to change tact in other areas of public policies.


I don't believe they will.
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The test, trace and isolate system was a brick fest as a result of a combination of Deloitte, Serco, and Dido Harding as well as PHE. But hey let’s just blame the Civil servants and totally ignore the role of private industry in the debacle. The Vaccine programme was a collaborative partnership, Kate Bingham, the pharmaceutical venture capitalist was responsible for the procurement decisions, the JCVI (a bunch of civil servants) decided on the risk groups and the dosing of the vaccines, the MHRA (another bunch of civil servants) approved the vaccines and the civil service alongside the Army set up the vaccination centres. It also wasn’t civil servants who went to their mates to procure PPE costing billions. I cannot believe people still peddle this nonsense where everything bad is down to the public sector and all things good come out of industry. You want the system to be better? Stop entitled, career politicians with no competence in leadership like erm Boris Johnson running the country.
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
Why? They don't care in the EU about how many people are dying or suffering. As long as they get their gold plated pensions, will probably get loyalty payments for their hard work in helping the people of Europe through the pandemic.

Aside from a feeling that people should be free it is the politicians in the EU is Kinloch still out there? It is the politicians that is one of my big motivators in hating the EU.
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There is no doubt that the EU got it wrong. But they were trying to avoid a vaccine war where bigger countries mopped up the vaccine before the smaller ones could vaccinate their population. They will learn and catch up I am sure because the vaccination programme across the world is a marathon rather a sprint. More concerningly for me is that our politicians learn from the huge public health mistakes that have been made this time around. Because another deadly pandemic will come and if we rely on a vaccine every time then we will lose a lot of lives again.
 
Robspur12 said:
The test, trace and isolate system was a brick fest as a result of a combination of Deloitte, Serco, and Dido Harding as well as PHE. But hey let’s just blame the Civil servants and totally ignore the role of private industry in the debacle. The Vaccine programme was a collaborative partnership, Kate Bingham, the pharmaceutical venture capitalist was responsible for the procurement decisions, the JCVI (a bunch of civil servants) decided on the risk groups and the dosing of the vaccines, the MHRA (another bunch of civil servants) approved the vaccines and the civil service alongside the Army set up the vaccination centres. It also wasn’t civil servants who went to their mates to procure PPE costing billions. I cannot believe people still peddle this nonsense where everything bad is down to the public sector and all things good come out of industry. You want the system to be better? Stop entitled, career politicians with no competence in leadership like erm Boris Johnson running the country.
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Uh... I work in the civil service
I know what’s going on in these areas
I know some of the people you mention
It’s not nonsense. I know people who worked on T&T and also some of the consultants. Their all in my opinion the wiring people.
In facts that I see it daily!!!
And I work very very closely with the army
From my hands on first hand experience.. and I say this as someone who is soon to be leading a £b change programme it’s standard in the civil service for decisions to be made by committee and not happen. I mean literally I mean every single excuse is taken not to make a call just in case they get or wrong (sound familiar) and a junior member of staff will use very little bit of energy they can to stop things happening if there is a modicum of change and modernisation
 
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Robspur12 said:
So do you deny what I have described above?
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Yes
See my posted above
Your quoting stuff from the papers I assume
As I say... I know the people
I know exactly how it works
I know how they got it wrong
And I also know how they got the vaccine element right
Right people, right jobs
Not shuffling people around because their senior civil servants into roles they can’t do
Not promoting junior staff because they ticked some boxes for a promotion in a completely different field
Not employing Deloittes for anything...
serco... I feel sorry for as their role was spun massively by the papers
But ultimately it failed because too many people couldn’t do their jobs due to being out of their depth and also couldn’t or wouldn’t make decisions.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Uh... I work in the civil service
I know what’s going on in these areas
I know some of the people you mention
It’s not nonsense. I know people who worked on T&T and also some of the consultants. Their all in my opinion the wiring people.
In facts that I see it daily!!!
And I work very very closely with the army
From my hands on first hand experience.. and I say this as someone who is soon to be leading a £b change programme it’s standard in the civil service for decisions to be made by committee and not happen. I mean non-figuratively I mean every single excuse is taken not to make a call just in case they get or wrong (sound familiar) and a junior member of staff will use very little bit of energy they can to stop things happening if there is a modicum of change and modernisation
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Bully for you I know people who work in the civil service and people who were directly involved in the set up of test and vaccine centres. I don’t personally know any top people, but the junior ones I know like my wife and most of her colleagues are extremely hard working and only try to do the best job they can. As with any organisation there will be bad eggs. But to say it’s all rotten is ridiculous.
 
Robspur12 said:
The test, trace and isolate system was a brick fest as a result of a combination of Deloitte, Serco, and Dido Harding as well as PHE. But hey let’s just blame the Civil servants and totally ignore the role of private industry in the debacle. The Vaccine programme was a collaborative partnership, Kate Bingham, the pharmaceutical venture capitalist was responsible for the procurement decisions, the JCVI (a bunch of civil servants) decided on the risk groups and the dosing of the vaccines, the MHRA (another bunch of civil servants) approved the vaccines and the civil service alongside the Army set up the vaccination centres. It also wasn’t civil servants who went to their mates to procure PPE costing billions. I cannot believe people still peddle this nonsense where everything bad is down to the public sector and all things good come out of industry. You want the system to be better? Stop entitled, career politicians with no competence in leadership like erm Boris Johnson running the country.
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I agree with you and i think this whole experience should show people how government could and should govern, they should think very carefully about who to vote for at the next election. I did not vote for Boris and wont next time. I like Starmer and think he is better then Boris and hope that Labour would do better, it is not a given but I hope they will do better.
 
@Robspur12 i called out a few papers for their spin on stories last year and they brick a brick

one was the guardian (a paper that personally aligns with my political views) on the ventilator procurement... they suggested they were brought via an intermediary from Manchester, who had a turnover of around £120k. This would have been a £120m contract in a field where they had no expertise
The guardian didn’t like me highlighting some basic facts that knocked their story
Hey ... the PPE procurement was shocking and I believe some people will end up in court over it (check out the Good Law Project)
But I stand by my knowledge and experience of the civil service as a fat, bloated group of people creating jobs for jobs sake and working to the lowest common level of their knowledge
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Yes
See my posted above
Your quoting stuff from the papers I assume
As I say... I know the people
I know exactly how it works
I know how they got it wrong
And I also know how they got the vaccine element right
Right people, right jobs
Not shuffling people around because their senior civil servants into roles they can’t do
Not promoting junior staff because they ticked some boxes for a promotion in a completely different field
Not employing Deloittes for anything...
serco... I feel sorry for as their role was spun massively by the papers
But ultimately it failed because too many people couldn’t do their jobs due to being out of their depth and also couldn’t or wouldn’t make decisions.
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So it wasn’t the MHRA who approved the vaccine?, it wasn’t the JCVI who determined the dosing and risk groups? I must have imagined civil servants who helped with setting up test sites and recruiting vaccinators.
 
Robspur12 said:
There is no doubt that the EU got it wrong. But they were trying to avoid a vaccine war where bigger countries mopped up the vaccine before the smaller ones could vaccinate their population. They will learn and catch up I am sure because the vaccination programme across the world is a marathon rather a sprint. More concerningly for me is that our politicians learn from the huge public health mistakes that have been made this time around. Because another deadly pandemic will come and if we rely on a vaccine every time then we will lose a lot of lives again.
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I came back in from China last February, I was there for unrelated health reasons. I walked straight through and no one even checked me despite it being given world wide pandemic status.

I have said we should have just followed the Japanese and South Koreans as they have experience of it and coped far better then us. The decision to keep air travel going (craving into the airlines demand) is mental. I dont actually think holidays should go ahead abroad this summer because of the risks of variants.

Undoubtedly the tories to often give into their donors demands to the detriment to the country.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
@Robspur12 i called out a few papers for their spin on stories last year and they brick a brick

one was the guardian (a paper that personally aligns with my political views) on the ventilator procurement... they suggested they were brought via an intermediary from Manchester, who had a turnover of around £120k. This would have been a £120m contract in a field where they had no expertise
The guardian didn’t like me highlighting some basic facts that knocked their story
Hey ... the PPE procurement was shocking and I believe some people will end up in court over it (check out the Good Law Project)
But I stand by my knowledge and experience of the civil service as a fat, bloated group of people creating jobs for jobs sake and working to the lowest common level of their knowledge
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I am sure there are bad people but it is not a reasonable argument that industry does everything better than public sector. Both have had the hands in the successes such as the vaccine programme and both in the failures.
 
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