Daisuk
Nayim
It's the mandala effect with Spurs, where patterns keep repeating themselves.
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Contingency planning : If Ange is sacked, who should replace him?
- Thread starter Daisuk
- Start date
It's the mandala effect with Spurs, where patterns keep repeating themselves.
Jurgen the German
Willie Hall
Surely the biggest factor (and there are many) for a manager taking a job is how good they are on the pitch? We’ve clearly fallen from the consistency of finishing in the top 4 on a regular basis and getting to finals as we did under Poch.
The side below is 3rd, 1 point off 2nd and just beat us
I see two players that have a shot at our first 11, Spurs is better than we think
I agree with that. I don’t think Iraola would come mid-season, a better option might present itself for him in 6 months, whereas Thomas Frank probably would jump as he’ll never get a bigger club than us.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I think Nagellsmann would love to get back into club football now
He turned us down to go to Bayern
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
In that team, apart from some players being in the wrong roles, we would take their CBS, keeper and gibbs white straight away. I’d also have a Hudson Odoi on the left for now.
So for me that’s half their team, but also because do who we dont have available
I’d we had a fully fit squad I’d still take them all as part of it
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
The issue is that squad you name has never been available in its entirety … well maybe 3 games in total
So no manager is getting more out of something that doesn’t exist
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Legohamster
Ian Walker
Quite, he didnt turn us down to go to Wolves, he turned down us and Chelsea to go to the biggest club in Germany.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
Chelsea?
I’d didnt know that
Bishop
Nick Barmby
Sure but would he want to come to Spurs? I'm not so sure.
Edit: in terms of playstyle he is the right kind of coach. He would use the foundations Ange has laid and enhance them.
Bedfordspurs
Chris Waddle
I think he would
But he won’t with a competition coming up soon ish
fernadez
Jermaine Jenas
What team affords you more than a couple of years showing the form that we are? Which club out there gives managers money time and patience. If you get the first, you're definitely not getting the other two.
Arteta only survived cause there were no fans in the stadium.
We still remain outside the top top jobs the best of the rest. Failing at Spurs has no negative effect on a manager as we've been failing for years.
You get all the facilities, location, stadium and a workable squad. Ange could still easily buy himself another season of he just adjusted slightly.
If your Iraola, everything you're doing at Bournemouth is to attract a job at the next level up, you prove what you can do with less, to get a job that affords you more.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Yes, it hurt his career albeit at the time he got fired try finding anyone who thought it was a good idea given what he'd managed to get them into doing.
Idealist??? Ha! It's more to do with whether Levy feels his reputation needs it or not. Absolutely nothing to do with idealism.
'Off the deep end'? Just because I have a different read of the current situation?! FWIW the reason I think he will now try to find younger future 'stars' is precisely because of what he spent on Mourinho and Conte.
Even in the next tier down there can be good options but some is probably luck and the environment, squad and money they're provided with. Maresca looks pretty good for instance. Glasner would be in that tier but hasn't performed as well. Poch would have been in that tier when we hired him, maybe even a rung below.
McKenna is even below that but would definitely be on the list.
It'a shame Tuchel wasn't available at the right time, think he's a great manager though does tend to get a bit prickly but generally performs well wherever he goes.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Sigh. There he is. What's the point of that question? Genuinely. Aren't you one of those who was happy Poch was sacked and The Charlatan brought in? I can't remember. If that wasn't the case, apologies.
You make it sound easy. It isn't. How much are you getting for those two players? I'll be generous and give you 40 for Richy and 25 for Biss. 65 on-top of this 100 mill. How much are we spending in wages on incomings? What's that ceiling? An important thing to account for. Are you buying more young backups or are you spending for ready made? A 6 of proper powers is 60 at least, wages? 200 perhaps? Second striker? Where are you shopping?
As for that last bit bold-faced...does anyone have the stats for how we're doing under Ange when Vic, Romero & VdV are fit? Look at the squad. It is promising but thin.
We will not be able to do what we should IMO. We should be able to upgrade on Maddison, get Son's real replacement in and hope to keep him as a squad player, upgrade on Richy, upgrade on Bissouma, have proper alternatives at CB whilst not blocking the path for others. That's a lot of work!
SpiderSpurs
Andy Gray
Top 5 faves for the job, should it become vacant...
Potter 4/1
Howe 9/1
Iraola 10/1
McKenna 10/1
Southgate 14/1
Potter 4/1
Howe 9/1
Iraola 10/1
McKenna 10/1
Southgate 14/1
Off the deep end because you (something you never did before) are doing the picking and choosing to blame the owners
- Levy has never baulked at paying managers, and Poch was one of his most expensive at the end (and to pay out), and future stars (he wanted Jose at Porto), BMJ, AVB, Poch is all in line with past behavior
There is nothing to suggest that has changed and/or we will limit manager salaries
- I believed Poch had run his course (all managers do, and when they spiral there is little/no historical precedent at any club to recover. Might be a unique case with Pep this season at City to study)
- I never wanted Jose/Conte, I thought they were self serving clams who manipulate the media at the expense of the organizations they work for. Once they were here, like any player/manager, I backed them for a period
The reason for the question is, you know, I know, anyone who is being honest knows
- Play this team in a 4-2-3-1 with two sitting DMs, use the wingers or FBs, and actually use Solanke as a CF, be prepared to manage the game, use mid blocks when needed and this team, even with injuries, will beat Wolves, Everton, Leicester, Brentford, Tamworth, Hoffenheim, Elfsborg, Brentford. That's 8 wins in next month, you really think we are going to win 8 games in the next month? That has nothing to do with club, that is 100% the manager
And to show you I'm having a serious conversation (see your ask below)
Yes, there is work to do (always is) but again we have spent almost 300M in 18 months, and we have made great buys with almost no real flops, why believe you got Vic, Udogie, VDV, Sarr, Solanke (CF & GK probably being the hardest to replace) and we can't do any more? funny, seems now that the club is willing to spend 40-60M multiple times, now we supposedly have a wage problem? we don't or at least not in context of this season results. Yes there are probably 4 clubs in PL that pay better (but we aren't getting 5th results) and we pay way better than almost anyone in Europe except RM/Barca/PSG/Bayern.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Answers below..
Check your facts.
Just because I don't come on here fogging off about Levy, it doesn't mean I have always been a 'loyalist'. I am largely ambivalent, partially because my opinions on his tenure have no impact whatsoever, and partially because it is far from black and white. I am always critical of him when he makes what I consider to be mistakes. I was critical of him during many of the Poch years because he made mistakes. I was critical of his bringing in Mourinho because it was a script flip we were not ready for (him as much as anyone, do you REALLY think Mourinho's first choice was Gedson Fernandes)? I remain critical of him when there's criticism to be made. I also remain very positive about him with the things he has done superbly well (stadium, etc).
I am glad he was paying Poch somewhat properly at the end. The bloke delivered consistent CL on a shoe-string and a CL Final. I am well aware of Levy's infatuation with Mourinho; so was he. Why do we think what happened happened? Let's not get into all that gonads again, but it was schoolboy infatuation stuff being played by a wily old fox who knew there was no downside. Jesus, we gave Mourinho a fudging Amazon series to parade about in!!!!! Levy will spend the money if it suits HIM. That's been a fact through his time.
Poch remains your opinion. Not mine (I suppose that's why you threw in the cheap 'your boy' jab). I took the same approach with the other two - I call it my football hypocrisy LOL but in truth it is the reality of being a supporter).
My single biggest issue with these hypothesis, is that they are based on what WE might do versus what HE will do. You can strategise all you want, I think it'd be miraculous if he did that. Further, what I cannot understand is how people don't see the dialectic in why him sticking to the principles he and the club bought in on collectively might indeed be the best way. It simply ceases to be a discussion because of the period we are in. Is there ever going to be any long-term vision/commitment, or will we just bounce aimlessly around in short-term pockets/
The last salary stats I saw are as below. Take into account I do not always believe the best paid players are the best players.
https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-wage-bill/
Interesting stats.
Check your facts.
Just because I don't come on here fogging off about Levy, it doesn't mean I have always been a 'loyalist'. I am largely ambivalent, partially because my opinions on his tenure have no impact whatsoever, and partially because it is far from black and white. I am always critical of him when he makes what I consider to be mistakes. I was critical of him during many of the Poch years because he made mistakes. I was critical of his bringing in Mourinho because it was a script flip we were not ready for (him as much as anyone, do you REALLY think Mourinho's first choice was Gedson Fernandes)? I remain critical of him when there's criticism to be made. I also remain very positive about him with the things he has done superbly well (stadium, etc).
I am glad he was paying Poch somewhat properly at the end. The bloke delivered consistent CL on a shoe-string and a CL Final. I am well aware of Levy's infatuation with Mourinho; so was he. Why do we think what happened happened? Let's not get into all that gonads again, but it was schoolboy infatuation stuff being played by a wily old fox who knew there was no downside. Jesus, we gave Mourinho a fudging Amazon series to parade about in!!!!! Levy will spend the money if it suits HIM. That's been a fact through his time.
Poch remains your opinion. Not mine (I suppose that's why you threw in the cheap 'your boy' jab). I took the same approach with the other two - I call it my football hypocrisy LOL but in truth it is the reality of being a supporter).
My single biggest issue with these hypothesis, is that they are based on what WE might do versus what HE will do. You can strategise all you want, I think it'd be miraculous if he did that. Further, what I cannot understand is how people don't see the dialectic in why him sticking to the principles he and the club bought in on collectively might indeed be the best way. It simply ceases to be a discussion because of the period we are in. Is there ever going to be any long-term vision/commitment, or will we just bounce aimlessly around in short-term pockets/
The last salary stats I saw are as below. Take into account I do not always believe the best paid players are the best players.
https://www.givemesport.com/premier-league-wage-bill/
Interesting stats.
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So to try to answer
- I never expect anyone to be a Levy loyalist, nor should anyone be, but for decent conversation it has to be based on some reality. Your first two answers don't get to why you suddenly think we are going to be cheap with paying managers (when we never have been) outside of some "Levy sucks, therefore"
- The 4-2-3-1 scenario wasn't aimed at Ange, he will never do it, that much is clear at this point. My point was change could win us 8 games in the next month, I don't think he will and I don't think we will win anything close to that
- The salary stats are interesting, not sure what point in proves, Liverpool salaries are closer to us than Arsenal by a long away, we spend more than anyone outside the top 6 and once you get outside top 9, it isn't even competitive. United outspend Pool, Arsenal, us, Villa, Saudi Sportswashing Machine by huge margins. I'd argue that those stats say how you manage the club is more important than what you spend.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Ah well. I wouldn't wish for indecent, fictional conversation. The fact even you cannot deny is that Levy only spends when HE feels HE is under attack personally. Reactive. Always. Never proactive.
It's a futile discussion (quite aside from that comment) because ultimately, it doesn't fudging matter what pettiness we trade off on, the facts are that when Levy feels the flames he will act.
I had written a long response, but hey-ho, there we go.
The second point? Agreed. How you manage the club. From the top down.
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