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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Interesting discussion on the second captains football podcast about United and their structure...
A lot of links with Mourinho currently, but they made the point that even with Mourinho and even if he succeeds it will likely be a short term appointment for short term success. With Emirates Marketing Project getting Pep and a structure above him 3-4 years down the line they're likely to be much further along than United in terms of developing the club even if Mourinho gets them short term success.
Also made the point that they essentially have no footballing knowledge between LvG and Woodward. And Woodward himself obviously seems to have limited knowledge. Has been reported in the past that LvG has been surprised by how much responsibility he's had to take in the transfer market - responsibility he didn't really want or think that he benefited from perhaps.
Really a bit of a mess. And where LvG has actually been focusing on youth players, despite poor performances and underwhelming results, he's done a good job in that area. Mourinho is likely to go for much more experienced players and not give youth as much of a chance. For a club with their reputation for player development it's not really where they want to go after investing a lot of time under LvG in those young players.
A lot of links with Mourinho currently, but they made the point that even with Mourinho and even if he succeeds it will likely be a short term appointment for short term success. With Emirates Marketing Project getting Pep and a structure above him 3-4 years down the line they're likely to be much further along than United in terms of developing the club even if Mourinho gets them short term success.
Also made the point that they essentially have no footballing knowledge between LvG and Woodward. And Woodward himself obviously seems to have limited knowledge. Has been reported in the past that LvG has been surprised by how much responsibility he's had to take in the transfer market - responsibility he didn't really want or think that he benefited from perhaps.
Really a bit of a mess. And where LvG has actually been focusing on youth players, despite poor performances and underwhelming results, he's done a good job in that area. Mourinho is likely to go for much more experienced players and not give youth as much of a chance. For a club with their reputation for player development it's not really where they want to go after investing a lot of time under LvG in those young players.
jts1882
Dean Richards
It's odd that United and Liverpool have taken the the same approach in giving non-football people (Woodwood and Ayre) a large say over football matters. For supposedly astute businessmen this seems a strange mistake. Under Kenyon and Gill, who were both stronger leaders than Woodward, it was clear who was deciding football matter. And Arsenal were most successful when Wenger was allied with Dein, who had a good grasp of football and didn't overreach his own knowledge. While we can criticise Levy for some of his decisions, he has generally tried to have a football person in the boardroom (Pleat, Comolli, il uomo invisibile). We can see what he was trying to do.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Both have experienced serious vacuums of both power and knowledge. Ferguson is obvious at United as he was an all controlling juggernaut of football management. Benitez is less obvious at Liverpool, but he was a bit of a control freak and wanted as much of that power as possible and got a lot of it. Combined with relatively inexperienced owners it's been a bit of a mess after those two left those clubs.
Yet of course we're only a couple of years removed from people on this board claiming that Levy needs to learn from the Liverpool example...
jts1882
Dean Richards
I don't think Ferguson and Benitez are comparable. Ferguson was a control freak but he knew how to delegate and was able to work very effectively with Kenyon and Gill. In contrast, Benitez was in constant conflict with the owners. His demands for more money after the Champions League final contrast with Ferguson's working within the Glazers' constraints, although we can argue about the merits of both.
United need to look at their structure before appointing a new manager. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having accountant types as CEOs, but Ayre and Woodward need an all-encompassing football manager they trust and listen to or another football person as an intermediary. Woodward and Mourinho is a recipe for disaster, one I am am looking forward to.
United need to look at their structure before appointing a new manager. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with having accountant types as CEOs, but Ayre and Woodward need an all-encompassing football manager they trust and listen to or another football person as an intermediary. Woodward and Mourinho is a recipe for disaster, one I am am looking forward to.
glorygloryeze
Jack Jull
This!
In fact, Jorge Mendes must be licking his lips at the prospect of the agent fees he'll be getting from shuffling a lot of mediocre dross dressed up as "the next Neymar/Messi/Di Maria" through Old Trafford's doors
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Indeed, I remember a lot of fans saying if Liverpool refused to sell Suarez why does Levy not refuse to sell Bale? Got to love some fans.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
I watched the last hour, tbh Arsenal were so bad it's difficult to tell. They couldn't keep the ball, lost runners, were second to almost everything, awful. Man U looked energetic going forward and played some really good football in the last 15 mins but the game was over by then because Arsenal were clueless.
greatwhitenorf
Dean Richards
Gotta believe Juan Mata isn't in LVG's corner. First yellow was silly, second looked so avoidable. Amazing how much time and space Rondon was afforded to score today.
Just when things were looking positive for United and LVG might have a chance to build a happy ending and see out his contract, the players find a way to put an end to the optimism. Clearly, they must hate him and want him out.
Just when things were looking positive for United and LVG might have a chance to build a happy ending and see out his contract, the players find a way to put an end to the optimism. Clearly, they must hate him and want him out.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Or they are just cack
Seedy Ron
Jimmy Neighbour
But he's a nice chap and has never been sent off before, so it shouldn't have been a second yellow. You can only get sent off if you're a rotten brick. Apparently.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
2 huge EL games coming up for LVG, the fans will go totally mental if Liverpool beat them over 2 legs
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
I can't decide who I want to loose more. It's a bit of a win-win situation really.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Manchester United have criticised the fans who sang chants about the Hillsborough disaster during Thursday's Europa League defeat at Liverpool.
Offensive songs were heard during Liverpool's 2-0 win at Anfield in the first leg of their last-16 tie.
Ninety-six Liverpool fans died as a result of a crush at Hillsborough in an FA Cup semi-final between the Reds and Nottingham Forest in 1989.
United said the chants "have no place in the game".
"It has always been the position of Manchester United that chants of this nature, which refer to historical tragedies, do not reflect the values the club holds," a spokesman said.
"We are in discussion with our fans' groups to seek their support in preventing this type of behaviour in the future."
Former Liverpool midfielder Ray Houghton told BBC Radio 5 live the chants were "dreadful".
"It has to come out of our game," he said. "There were people in the crowd who lost loved ones at Hillsborough and that's really hard to take.
"It's something we don't want to hear. It's happened in the past with Liverpool fans to Manchester United with what happened at Munich. It's uncalled for."
In February 1958, eight United players and three club officials lost their lives in a plane crash in Munich following a European Cup tie.
"When you lower yourself to that level [of those fans], it's quite remarkable," said Houghton.
"It should have been a night of celebration - they haven't played each other in a European tie before. The fans should have been getting behind their own team. When you stoop as low as they did last night, for me, it's dreadful."
A story in the Sun newspaper four days after the Hillsborough disaster criticised Liverpool fans' behaviour at the time. The newspaper is still heavily boycotted in Merseyside as a result.
"There were chants during the first half - 'the Sun was right', referring to the Hillsborough tragedy," said BBC Sport's Juliette Ferrington, who was at Anfield.
"It wasn't continuous but it was clearly audible, maybe four or five times. It kind of got drowned out. The noise at the game was deafening.
"It happened again just after the full-time whistle - it was drowned out by: 'You'll Never Walk Alone' and 'we won it five times' (a reference to Liverpool's five European Cup triumphs). There was lots of saddened head-shaking in the press-box."
Former United striker Dion Dublin told BBC Radio Manchester the songs were "disgusting".
"It leaves a bad taste in your mouth," he said. "It's not in good taste, and the people that were actually singing it should feel embarrassed."
Offensive songs were heard during Liverpool's 2-0 win at Anfield in the first leg of their last-16 tie.
Ninety-six Liverpool fans died as a result of a crush at Hillsborough in an FA Cup semi-final between the Reds and Nottingham Forest in 1989.
United said the chants "have no place in the game".
"It has always been the position of Manchester United that chants of this nature, which refer to historical tragedies, do not reflect the values the club holds," a spokesman said.
"We are in discussion with our fans' groups to seek their support in preventing this type of behaviour in the future."
Former Liverpool midfielder Ray Houghton told BBC Radio 5 live the chants were "dreadful".
"It has to come out of our game," he said. "There were people in the crowd who lost loved ones at Hillsborough and that's really hard to take.
"It's something we don't want to hear. It's happened in the past with Liverpool fans to Manchester United with what happened at Munich. It's uncalled for."
In February 1958, eight United players and three club officials lost their lives in a plane crash in Munich following a European Cup tie.
"When you lower yourself to that level [of those fans], it's quite remarkable," said Houghton.
"It should have been a night of celebration - they haven't played each other in a European tie before. The fans should have been getting behind their own team. When you stoop as low as they did last night, for me, it's dreadful."
A story in the Sun newspaper four days after the Hillsborough disaster criticised Liverpool fans' behaviour at the time. The newspaper is still heavily boycotted in Merseyside as a result.
"There were chants during the first half - 'the Sun was right', referring to the Hillsborough tragedy," said BBC Sport's Juliette Ferrington, who was at Anfield.
"It wasn't continuous but it was clearly audible, maybe four or five times. It kind of got drowned out. The noise at the game was deafening.
"It happened again just after the full-time whistle - it was drowned out by: 'You'll Never Walk Alone' and 'we won it five times' (a reference to Liverpool's five European Cup triumphs). There was lots of saddened head-shaking in the press-box."
Former United striker Dion Dublin told BBC Radio Manchester the songs were "disgusting".
"It leaves a bad taste in your mouth," he said. "It's not in good taste, and the people that were actually singing it should feel embarrassed."
That made me genuinely lol.