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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel

galeforce said:
I think Hazard is getting even less out of his ability than Pogba myself.
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Cant agree with that, Pogba has been an embarrassment to himself while Hazard carries Chelsea.

I do agree he could do/be more, and almost certainly isnt tapping his full potential, but he is far closer to that than Pogba.


galeforce said:
My biggest take away from that, Barca are equally as misguided in the market, mata would be another underwhelming AM for them.
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As you mention it, most of their transfers flop dont they?

We are always hearing of "Barca spend big money and get X" and then within a window or two "X is available for transfer having not got any games"...


jts1882 said:
Is that a sackable offence there?
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It shouldnt be, but wouldnt be a surprise if it was!
 
https://www.skysports.com/football/...vra-to-discuss-the-state-of-manchester-united

Gary Neville meets Patrice Evra to discuss the state of Manchester United

The reason I never speak about my exit
(Evra) It's always difficult for me to talk about Manchester United. The reason I never talk about United is because it hurts. I left the club for personal
reasons. It was a very difficult moment in my life, even though I went to play for Juventus and I had one of the best experiences.

Today I want to talk because a lot of people don't understand why I stay quiet. Of course, I do some videos when I try to motivate the players, I call the players, and I've been watching games with Ed (Woodward). I am hurt with the situation of the club, I think it's really painful and I don't want the fans and the people to think that I don't care.

(Neville) What needs fixing at Old Trafford?
(Evra) I will say it is the spirit and the passion for the club. I know I am talking 'old school'. I don't want to blame the players because I think that some players are here and they themselves don't even know why they are here.

They don't have leadership in the dressing room to show them what it means to play for Manchester United. In our time, I remember I played nine years for United and for seven years I don't think I lost two games in a row

When I met Sir Alex Ferguson and David Gill in Monaco at the time, when they interviewed me, they asked me questions like 'are you going to be ready to not lose any games?' and 'are you ready to play only at the top of the game and get criticised for a normal game?' You had figures at the club who tell you what you are going to represent.

The problem now is on the pitch but also off the pitch.

What problems do United's squad have?
I will be honest with you, I love all of them. I see them a lot - when I go to the games, I visit them in the dressing room and encourage them - they know how much I love them. But name me one or two players who can play for Real Madrid, Juventus or Bayern Munich? It's a few. I would say Paul Pogba and David de Gea. I have a lot of respect for the rest of them.

What have you made of Alexis Sanchez?
Some players only come for the money, I am not afraid to say that. I have nothing against him, but Sanchez, when I saw the deal, that's when I thought the Manchester United history just went down. He had Emirates Marketing Project, they were offering less money but he was going to play a better football than United - I'm sorry about that, but City play better football. Guardiola will also improve him.

So I want to know what is the real reason for choosing United? Don't tell me he loved Manchester United when he was a kid. It's either the money or he wanted to be the number one, take the No 7 shirt and be the star.

What did you make of the abuse directed at Pogba on Sunday?
It's not like I am protecting Paul but when there are incidents like yesterday with the fan, they are killing Paul.

He has the most goals, most assists. I know you can question his leadership and in the last few games you want more, so that's why you can criticise him right now, but overall he has been the best player this season.

Just because it's Paul Pogba, he has haircuts, he dances, his Instagram and everything, people will criticise him while forgetting the player that he is. Only him and De Gea can play in a big team in Europe.

Would you build a new team around Pogba - or will he leave?
I think he will leave because you need to feel the love when you play somewhere, you need to be committed. If Paul decides to stay another year and then leave, or stay another few years, maybe the fans will love him because he is committed. The United fans love you when you say you are committed.

When I go to the game and I see fans shouting and swearing at players, I am in shock. In my time, you can play the worst game of your life and they will clap you. I remember losing 4-1 at home to Liverpool and they were still singing. That's the United fans I know - they've just had enough.

I don't talk for Paul, whether he stays or leaves, but when you have negativity around you, you should leave.

Can Pogba rebuild his connection with the fans?

I advise Paul every day. We Facetime, we talk. I tell him every day what it means to wear the tracksuit, not even the shirt, just the tracksuit and what it represents. He listens to me.

Before he left the club when he was young to go to Juventus, I spent two hours at his house talking to his mother and brothers, saying how Paul can be the new Patrick Vieira at United.

Do agents hurt players' relationships with fans?
Agents have power over every player. I know Paul is not 18 but it is not easy. When we won the Champions League in 2008, I was at the end of my contract and Real Madrid came with a big opportunity and more money - I was thinking about leaving.

I spoke with the manager and he said we will renew your contract. He said at the time, 'we will give you the same money as Gary Neville!' I said 'boss, I have respect for Gaz, he is our captain, but I am Patrice Evra'. You have to make an effort. In the end, I signed a new deal.

My agent was really honest with me. He told me about the challenge but knew that my DNA was Manchester United.

What would you change at boardroom level?
You want me to kill people, eh? I'll be honest; I haven't spoken to people from the board deeply about this, Ed Woodward or the Glazers. Who is picking the players? Is it the board or the manager? That's my real question. Did Mourinho want Sanchez badly? Or was it just Ed? It's difficult to point the finger at someone because we don't know.

Until you work inside the club, you can't answer this. From outside, the first person everyone is going to blame is Ed. Does the manager say to him that he wants a player and he should give him the money? We have to change the way we think. Business is important, I know, but until you win trophies and show your passion, people will hate you.

It will take time, I think they need more people who understand this club and will bleed for it. They need more ex-players involved.

Are ex-players qualified enough to do the job required?
You need to understand the club. Maybe they don't have it, that's why I say ex-players, the most important thing is inside the dressing room. I'm not ashamed to say it, I sacrificed even my family to succeed for United. You know the flag 'United, Kids, Wife', that doesn't make me laugh. Are the board, managers, players ready to do that?


 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
I think on this front Neville really is right. They are run like amateurs on the footballing side, bouncing from one idea to the next, and I think the players sense this weakness.

Thats nothing to do with Ole (I can spell Solskjaer but its horrible to type!) and more to do with the club as a whole. Much like us pre-Poch (and pre-Jol).

I dont mind Ole being the manager, but he needs to actually manage and be backed in doing so.

Until there is a unified strategy they will just take the tinkle.

The players respond to authority and so far Ole hasnt displayed any IMO. Or has he not been able to? Hard to tell.

That early run, 10 games winning was it? Was a total false dawn. They had the easiest run imaginable, didnt play well at all but managed results. Even against us, the first decent team they played, it was as spawny a win as Id seen all season. We battered them and somehow they fluked the points.

I dont think at any point the players were ever really performing.

The question is why? And I tend to come down on the manager more than players, its his job to find a way that works and Ole hasnt at this point.

So Im babbling a bit - yes I agree with you (IMO) Ole isnt a good enough manager, but no, I disagree in that I think the issues arent that simple and there is a larger problem at play.

I dont think Ole is going to work out, but they have given him the job and he deserves a decent crack at it.

This summer will be key for him, and it doesnt look pretty IMO.

They have a good few divas to get rid of, and deadwood to shift, and really need a pretty significant rebuild.

Getting rid of players on big deals from a position of weakness is hard.

And replacing them when you are a shadow of your former self even harder.

I wouldnt fancy trying to work that out and build a team capable of meeting expectation...
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So basically, when they did well, it was all a 10 game massive fluke, and when it hasn't worked that well recently, it's nothing to do with the players, it's only the managers fault.
That's what you said. Sounds reasonable...
 
Kandi1977 said:
So basically, when they did well, it was all a 10 game massive fluke, and when it hasn't worked that well recently, it's nothing to do with the players, it's only the managers fault.
That's what you said. Sounds reasonable...
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Is it? Are you sure?

The club is poorly run from a level above the manager
The early run was a false dawn given the ridiculously easy opponents and good fortune
Specifically "I dont think at any point the players were ever really performing." - certainly not "nothing to do with the players"
The manager should have done more to put his stamp on things and effect performances

and
"I agree with you (IMO) Ole isnt a good enough manager, but no, I disagree in that I think the issues arent that simple and there is a larger problem at play."

So basically, Im not sure you read the post at all ;)
 
I have read that United may pull out of the money spinning preseason tournament where they would play us as the dates clash with their qualifying rounds of the Europa League, it also appears several other club have doubts due to domestic fixtures. An other case of clubs just looking for the money without looking ahead.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
I have read that United may pull out of the money spinning preseason tournament where they would play us as the dates clash with their qualifying rounds of the Europa League, it also appears several other club have doubts due to domestic fixtures. An other case of clubs just looking for the money without looking ahead.
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Quite often EUROPA qualifiers lead to clubs being a bit more ready for the season and starting well, but running into fatigue much earlier in the season and hitting a real slump.

Wouldnt be too surprised if Utd did similar.
 
Now, in an apparent swipe at his successor, Mourinho told L'Equipe: "Generally, the players can feel a certain erosion, especially when you ask a lot of them.

"When I say that the second season was fantastic, I say it because the potential and the objectives were met.

"I really squeezed, like an orange, to achieve them. When you have a very professional group of players who are ambitious, hard-working and talented, at a structured club, you don't have that erosion.

"When you are almost alone, in that you don't have the support of the club close to you, while certain players go somewhat against the coach, who is the nice guy.

"I don't want to be the nice guy, because the nice guy, after three months, is a puppet and that doesn't end well.” [Solskjaer]

Mourinho issues with £89million record signing Paul Pogba have been well documented, but he insists problems at the club go far deeper than the France star.

"The problems are there, you can say that these are the players, the organisation, the ambition,” he added.

"I only say that I cannot say 'yes' when you ask if Paul was the only one responsible."
 
Things always look a lots clearer when you step away from a situation or job, since I retired I look back on what I did and find myself thinking I could have done this better or managed that person in a different way, it's not so easy to get the time for reflection when you're at the sharp end.
 
Exactly. But as long as you filter his motives, he does make some good observations. He was an extremely effective coach and still has an astute football mind, but unfortunately the lack of the ability for self-reflection means he can't reinvent himself the way Ferguson was able to. Everyone knew he would repeat his pattern of falling out with everyone by the third season, but he couldn't stop himself repeating the same mistakes.
 
jts1882 said:
Exactly. But as long as you filter his motives, he does make some good observations. He was an extremely effective coach and still has an astute football mind, but unfortunately the lack of the ability for self-reflection means he can't reinvent himself the way Ferguson was able to. Everyone knew he would repeat his pattern of falling out with everyone by the third season, but he couldn't stop himself repeating the same mistakes.
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I was going to make the Fergie compare as he evolved with the game, on the pitch at least. Wenger Mourinho only had one one way of playing / managing and their singlemindedness which may have been a strength became a weakness. I like to think that Poch is an adaptable coach more than say Pep and Klopp who are also wedded to their style without compromise.
 
He's the type of young player they want to keep, but why do they feel the need to treble his wages? Who else would pay him double? I can't see many that could afford to and don't already have better. It's another unnecessary move by Ed Woodward.

It's funny how successful businessmen can make such a mess of football clubs. Woodward has been a big part of United's commercial success, so he is obviously neither a fool nor incompetent. That is until he starts making football related decisions. Like them or loath them, owners like Ashley and Sugar make bad decisions for their football clubs at odds with the business success.
 
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