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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel

glasgowspur said:
In context re klopp, he inherited a team that only a season and a half before almost won the league, has improved it and not got any closer.
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Are you referring to Liverpool or Dortmund? The Liverpool team he inherited that almost won the league also had Suarez, Sterling and Gerrard who had all moved on by the time Klopp arrived IIRC?
 
Jurgen the German said:
Are you referring to Liverpool or Dortmund? The Liverpool team he inherited that almost won the league also had Suarez, Sterling and Gerrard who had all moved on by the time Klopp arrived IIRC?
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A biting maniac that was suspended for half of the games, a spastic road-runner with no ball control and the player who lost them the league.
Yes you're right, he should have done much better when those where not around anymore.
 
Robspur12 said:
Indeed they did, but that was more a reflection that Bayern and Dortmund were not as strong as in previous seasons. Bayern and Dortmund's resources dwarf their competitors whereas as ours are dwarfed by our rivals. Plus there are not 2 money doped teams as well as the traditional behemoths to come up against in the Bundesliga. I believe it is a fair comparison to put Poch's achievements in the PL against Klopp's achievements in the Bundesliga. That is not to say that Klopp's achievement was not superb or that I don't rate him, only that what Poch has achieved with Spurs compares favourably with Dortmund given the resources at their disposal and competitiveness of the 2 leagues

The fairest comparison of course between the two is their achievements in the PL and CL with their current clubs. You could say they are pretty evenly matched, although now Klopp has spent a fortune to build a title winning side compared to Poch.

You keep bringing up Poch's lack of trophies with no context of the clubs he's managed. Discounting the League cup and FA cup for a second as I am sure if he wins either the narrative becomes he has not won a big trophy, do you really believe that Spurs would be winning league titles or Champions Leagues? Or is it that finishing 3-2-3, with the club's highest finishes since the 60s, going a full season unbeaten at home, coming up against 5 teams with resources that blow us out of the water, a pretty big deal in itself? The president of Real and Chairman of Utd think so. Or should they appoint Roberto di Matteo with his Champions League and FA cup trophies? Or perhaps Claudio Ranieri would be a better bet with his recent PL win? Do they have the edge over both Poch and Klopp?

I get you do not rate Poch as highly as others. Nothing wrong with that. It does however feel at times you cannot wait to point out his faults or that you do not give him the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps it's a reaction to over the top praise of him by some fans. You cannot blame fans for liking and rating this guy after what he has given us.

I am sure if United get their man though all Spurs fans will come to appreciate the job he has done.
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In answer to your question do you really believe that Spurs would be winning league titles or Champions Leagues? No I don't believe he should be winning league titles or the CL. But the fact is Klopp has done much better in the CL than Poch has and has reached the final twice, with two different clubs. Granted he hasn't won it yet but if we are comparing the two managers progress in the CL then surely Klopp would have to win that arguement?

Poch has bettered Klopp in the league no arguement from me there and has done fantastically well to finish above Liverpool.

Once again, Poch is a brilliant manager but I find it hard to say he is the best manager in the league when other managers have won numerous trophies and have proven they can win finals and league titles, in multiple leagues. I'd say he's easily the 3rd best manager in the league which to me is hardly and insult, far from it. I am looking at the overall picture i.e. trophies, league titles and league positions, not just one factor.

Let me ask you a question, if Liverpool win the league this season do you think the vast majority of GG will give him credit? Or will they say "yeah they were lucky" or "they've got more resources than us"? If ANY team finishes above Emirates Marketing Project this season it will be an incredible achievement IMO.
 
Daisuk said:
Dag Alex Olsen and Anders Rotevatn (had a very very short spell with us back in the day). :D
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I call your bunch of norwegian toerags, and raise a Roger Nilsen.
My ghod, we've had a bunch of dross norwegians through the years.
Espen Baardsen and Steffen Iversen at least had some talent and promise when we bought them. Øyvind Leonhardsen was described as "best without the ball" and though he should never have been anywhere near a Spurs-side the fact that he did play for us is a very good indicator of where the club were heading those days.
Roger Nilsen, the best thing one can say about him was that he had a left foot. But then again, so does everyone who is not an amputee.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Are you referring to Liverpool or Dortmund? The Liverpool team he inherited that almost won the league also had Suarez, Sterling and Gerrard who had all moved on by the time Klopp arrived IIRC?
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Liverpool.
My point though is that it's easy to look at a squad and say the right manager and few players and we're sorted. Liverpool/klopp were/are in that situation and they've not managed to get it done.
Comparisons are never straight forward, klopp has done a decent job at Liverpool, but he still hasn't brought in any silverware, three seasons and £100sm later. But that's all on paper, not the real world where its a lot different.
 
Kandi1977 said:
A biting maniac that was suspended for half of the games, a spastic road-runner with no ball control and the player who lost them the league.
Yes you're right, he should have done much better when those where not around anymore.
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A biting maniac who scored over 30 goals and Gerrard who was won of the best midfielders in the history of the PL? I get that people hate Liverpool but let's not get ridiculous.
 
Daisuk said:
Dag Alex Olsen and Anders Rotevatn (had a very very short spell with us back in the day). :D
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I saw Olsen play for us once in a pre-season match against Crawley. I think his problem was that he was too similar/not as good as Mason in the #10 position, especially considering Mason became our record academy goalscorer.

PSG's fullback Yuri Berchiche played that day too.
 
glasgowspur said:
Liverpool.
My point though is that it's easy to look at a squad and say the right manager and few players and we're sorted. Liverpool/klopp were/are in that situation and they've not managed to get it done.
Comparisons are never straight forward, klopp has done a decent job at Liverpool, but he still hasn't bought in any silverware, three seasons and £100sm later. But that's all on paper, not the real world where its a lot different.
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Brendan Rogers left them in a mess just as AVB/Sherwood did to us. Both Poch and Klopp have done great to get both teams into a position of title challengers, above the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and United who all have more resources. Both us and Liverpool have recruited far better than our rivals.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Brendan Rogers left them in a mess just as AVB/Sherwood did to us. Both Poch and Klopp have done great to get both teams into a position of title challengers, above the likes of Arsenal, Chelsea and United who all have more resources. Both us and Liverpool have recruited far better than our rivals.
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That's what I'm trying to say, not very well obviously, it's easy to say with this squad, manager, being a big club, get a few more players and it's sorted.
Klopp is proof that's its not that easy, he is a good manager, has a good squad, is at a big club who have spent money and hasn't done it.
Through no real fault of theirs I may add.
 
Jurgen the German said:
In answer to your question do you really believe that Spurs would be winning league titles or Champions Leagues? No I don't believe he should be winning league titles or the CL. But the fact is Klopp has done much better in the CL than Poch has and has reached the final twice, with two different clubs. Granted he hasn't won it yet but if we are comparing the two managers progress in the CL then surely Klopp would have to win that arguement?

Poch has bettered Klopp in the league no arguement from me there and has done fantastically well to finish above Liverpool.

Once again, Poch is a brilliant manager but I find it hard to say he is the best manager in the league when other managers have won numerous trophies and have proven they can win finals and league titles, in multiple leagues. I'd say he's easily the 3rd best manager in the league which to me is hardly and insult, far from it. I am looking at the overall picture i.e. trophies, league titles and league positions, not just one factor.

Let me ask you a question, if Liverpool win the league this season do you think the vast majority of GG will give him credit? Or will they say "yeah they were lucky" or "they've got more resources than us"? If ANY team finishes above Emirates Marketing Project this season it will be an incredible achievement IMO.
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Mate I can't speak for other GG posters. Speaking for myself I think it will be a tremendous achievement. To have the money is one thing but to use it wisely and make a team capable of winning titles is another.

Will it make him a better manager than Poch? I don't think you can say that, as while having money doesn't guarantee success it certainly helps to attain it. Poch has been working on a shoestring relatively to achieve what he has.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Once again, Poch is a brilliant manager but I find it hard to say he is the best manager in the league when other managers have won numerous trophies and have proven they can win finals and league titles

Let me ask you a question, if Liverpool win the league this season do you think the vast majority of GG will give him credit? Or will they say "yeah they were lucky" or "they've got more resources than us"? If ANY team finishes above Emirates Marketing Project this season it will be an incredible achievement IMO.
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Its an impossible argument, like who was the best P4P Heavyweight of all time, situations and mentality and times change so much its impossible to answer

Is Poch the est manager in the league, yes he is based on what is MO and circumstances are....Is Pep the best manager in the league, yes he is based on his MO and the circumstance, is Klopp, you get my point.
 
The Norwegian supporters' club is outraged that the Norwegian PL broadcaster are sticking with their original choice of Liverpool vs Saudi Sportswashing Machine on Boxing Day instead of switching to Solskjær's home debut against Huddersfield. The top story in one of the biggest papers right now. o_O
 
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