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Circus ManUnitus - Nobody's At The Wheel

Messi has proved it both for club and country, Argentina have got into 2 quarter finals and runners up, I'd swap that for England with those 3 "world class" players, its easy for the media to kick the England manager as they don't want to upset their mates the stars. If they were as good as we were told it was just a matter of get the ball to them and they'll do the business, but all the England manager obviously told the players not to pass to them or make runs. It very hard for reporters to be critical of someone they have built up as they look mugs. I'm not saying they weren't great for their clubs, just not as good as they were hyped at.
 
Surely the point is that Argentina have squads filled with “world class” players and spares who can’t get in the squad, whereas England have never had more than one or two at a time.

You shouldnt judge individuals on team performances.
 
Not sure Argentina are full of world class players. I judge the super stars by their ability to influence a game and although they did it regularly in british football they rarely did it in big CL games or internationals, super stars lift teams, as we saw with Bale and Ronaldho in the Euros.
 
Mourinho testing his squad massively this week, could end up like Chelsea where they effectively went on strike to have him sacked.

Apparently Matic was the only player yesterday with any quality, professionalism and good attitude....
 
United only had two shots on target - scoring with both - while Brighton had 14 efforts on goal, and Mourinho made clear his displeasure afterwards.

He said: "A few other guys, I saw them scared to play. I cannot say much more. It is a relation with personality, is a relation to trust, is a relation to class.

"When the sun is shining and everything goes well, you win matches, you score goals, everything goes in your direction, every player is a good player and wants to play and wants the ball and looks amazing and is confident.

"When it is dark and cold, and in football that means a period of bad results or a bad result, not everybody has the confidence and personality to play really.

"To be on the pitch and touch the ball every five minutes, everyone can do it, but to be on the pitch and say 'give me the ball because I want to play', not everyone can do that."

Serbia midfielder Matic was the only United player to emerge with unqualified credit in Mourinho's eyes, having set up Lukaku's goal before scoring himself.

Fellow midfielder Scott McTominay was commended for showing character, although Mourinho declared that his performance was the worst he had produced since his promotion from the youth set-up.

The manager said: "I prefer to name the good ones. Matic was an island of personality and quality and reaction to the defeat of last Tuesday.

"Scott played the worst match since he played with me in the first team but he is a Manchester United player for sure. He is the player that made mistakes, passed the ball so badly tonight, lost so many passes but had the big personality to cope with the mistake.

"He had the big personality to say: 'I am not playing well but at least I am going to do the basic things of the game, keep position, recover balls and don't make defensive mistakes.' But a few of the other guys, I saw them scared to play."

Mourinho reserved his biggest criticism for left-back Luke Shaw, substituted at half-time despite playing a role in Lukaku's goal.

The manager has criticised the England international repeatedly in the past, most notably last April, when he publicly questioned his approach in training, his commitment, his focus and his ambition.

Mourinho suggested that, against Brighton, Shaw and fellow full-back Antonio Valencia failed to follow his tactical instructions - and that was the reason for the half-time change.

"It is my decision," he said. "We worked on certain kinds of movements, where it was really important the two full-backs were aggressive, created space for Matic and were in front of the two central defenders. I didn't have that.

"I could have changed both of them at half-time. I didn't change both because it was too aggressive to do it. I would only have one more change available to make in 90 minutes.

"I had to change one and I chose Luke because at least Antonio defensively was capable of good positioning. Luke, in the first half, every time they came in his corridor, the cross came in and a dangerous situation was coming. I was not happy with his performance."


Thats one way of fostering team spirit...
 
Mourinho is being reported to want another £300m for new players this summer!

Personally I think he will be looking for another huge payout and he will be off.
This is the norm for him he's a repeat offender, create mayhem in the squad, which leaves the club with little alternative but to get rid!
 
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StephenH said:
Mourinho is being reported to want another £300m for new players this summer!

Personally I think he will be looking for another huge payout and he will be off.
This is the norm for him he's a repeat offender, create mayhem in the squad, which leaves the club with little alternative but to get rid!
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He's at his fudge off point .. I think united are just stupid enough to keep him another season which would likely result in a mid term firing next.
 
Raziel said:
He's at his fudge off point .. I think united are just stupid enough to keep him another season which would likely result in a mid term firing next.
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Nothing would surprise me with that club. They are run so poorly from a football standpoint, they are at the same footballing level as PSG and football success is not that important to the owners. Mourinho is perfect for them!
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
If I was Luke Shaw I’d be tempted to just hand in a transfer request.
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I wouldn't. That would play right into Man Utd's hands. They could then sell him and not have to pay him the remaining installments on whatever ludicrous signing on fee that gave him that is partly making up his £130k a week wages.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I wouldn't. That would play right into Man Utd's hands. They could then sell him and not have to pay him the remaining installments on whatever ludicrous signing on fee that gave him that is partly making up his £130k a week wages.
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Yea aware of that, but He’s stuck it out since Jose got there and it hasn’t done him any favours. Basically the point I was making was he’s got to get out of there, the club / manager’s killing him.
 
Mourinho's management style is really interesting. The Chelsea players from his first run there would line up to say what a great man manager he was, how they'd run through walls for him. Did he act like this with them? Was it part of it, or has something in him changed?

Maybe in the last 10 years, with the rise of social media and ever more money in the game, players really are different. And Mourinho's answer, rather than adapt, is to double down on a confrontational style. Maybe it's the whole 'us vs them' siege mentality he is looking to create, but at least with Chelsea, he had enough players on his side who could realistically be described in the 'Us' camp.

With Shaw it does bear the hallmarks of quite an abusive relationship. Slagging off in the media, then saying there is no better left back, then dropping him, then playing him but slagging him off again. I guess Jose is just annoyed that after the praise, maybe Shaw's level dropped again. But it is really interesting to see the way he is handling it all now, because I really don't think he used to be like this. Especially when you have managers like Poch and Klopp, who treat young players with the care they deserve, it shines a light on what Mourinho is doing. Even Conte, who seems to be one of the most intense and demanding coaches around, wouldn't ball out a young player like Mourinho is doing, and he's definitely had the opportunity to do so with Christensen or Morata.

Jose has been so successful that I do think maybe this is all part of his plan, maybe he is a psychological genius and given time and patience it will all come together for him. But really, the football they play is terrible, and he's barely happy with any of his squad. Maybe the game really has moved on from the point where his methods would be ultimately successful, and now he does just look like a caricature of a previously successful coach.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
If I was Luke Shaw I’d be tempted to just hand in a transfer request.
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off topic,

mourinho's behaviour raises some interesting societal questions imo...

mourinho is lucky that he isnt working in womens football, he would be out of a job by now.

in fact why hasn't there been an fa investigation into mourinho's bullying? is it because luke shaw is white and male? so the fa deem mourinhos behaviour towards him acceptable...
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Mourinho's management style is really interesting. The Chelsea players from his first run there would line up to say what a great man manager he was, how they'd run through walls for him. Did he act like this with them? Was it part of it, or has something in him changed?

Maybe in the last 10 years, with the rise of social media and ever more money in the game, players really are different. And Mourinho's answer, rather than adapt, is to double down on a confrontational style. Maybe it's the whole 'us vs them' siege mentality he is looking to create, but at least with Chelsea, he had enough players on his side who could realistically be described in the 'Us' camp.

With Shaw it does bear the hallmarks of quite an abusive relationship. Slagging off in the media, then saying there is no better left back, then dropping him, then playing him but slagging him off again. I guess Jose is just annoyed that after the praise, maybe Shaw's level dropped again. But it is really interesting to see the way he is handling it all now, because I really don't think he used to be like this. Especially when you have managers like Poch and Klopp, who treat young players with the care they deserve, it shines a light on what Mourinho is doing. Even Conte, who seems to be one of the most intense and demanding coaches around, wouldn't ball out a young player like Mourinho is doing, and he's definitely had the opportunity to do so with Christensen or Morata.

Jose has been so successful that I do think maybe this is all part of his plan, maybe he is a psychological genius and given time and patience it will all come together for him. But really, the football they play is terrible, and he's barely happy with any of his squad. Maybe the game really has moved on from the point where his methods would be ultimately successful, and now he does just look like a caricature of a previously successful coach.
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Jose's style is proven to only last a specific period of time (it looks like 3 years)

- He comes in, establishes authority by combination of his attitude and history of success. He then re-enforces that be spacegoating/riding a player out of club (insert long list here)
- He demands a level of effort from the players, pushes them, berates them to giving more
- He then ties that to a very defensive (don't lose strategy) with very detailed nullify the opponent plans.

Initially players get in line, give more, get better results and buy into the strategy for a while. Eventually the constant negative pushing hits a wall, they then realize that he's really just an asshat and it's time for him to move on.

The problem is clubs are so willing to sacrifice a long term vision, club harmony, style and the people (players) that work for them, for the 1 or 2 years of success you get out of a manger like Jose ...
 
BrainOfLevy said:
Mourinho's management style is really interesting. The Chelsea players from his first run there would line up to say what a great man manager he was, how they'd run through walls for him. Did he act like this with them? Was it part of it, or has something in him changed?

Maybe in the last 10 years, with the rise of social media and ever more money in the game, players really are different. And Mourinho's answer, rather than adapt, is to double down on a confrontational style. Maybe it's the whole 'us vs them' siege mentality he is looking to create, but at least with Chelsea, he had enough players on his side who could realistically be described in the 'Us' camp.

With Shaw it does bear the hallmarks of quite an abusive relationship. Slagging off in the media, then saying there is no better left back, then dropping him, then playing him but slagging him off again. I guess Jose is just annoyed that after the praise, maybe Shaw's level dropped again. But it is really interesting to see the way he is handling it all now, because I really don't think he used to be like this. Especially when you have managers like Poch and Klopp, who treat young players with the care they deserve, it shines a light on what Mourinho is doing. Even Conte, who seems to be one of the most intense and demanding coaches around, wouldn't ball out a young player like Mourinho is doing, and he's definitely had the opportunity to do so with Christensen or Morata.

Jose has been so successful that I do think maybe this is all part of his plan, maybe he is a psychological genius and given time and patience it will all come together for him. But really, the football they play is terrible, and he's barely happy with any of his squad. Maybe the game really has moved on from the point where his methods would be ultimately successful, and now he does just look like a caricature of a previously successful coach.
Click to expand...
I think something happened to him in Madrid. They didn't love him over there and it was the first time he had experienced that. It made him very bitter whereas up to that he was kind of amusing. I always got the impression the dingdonghead act in his earlier years was just that, an act, but after Madrid that basically became his personality..
 
Here’s a thought, maybe he can only do it when he is helping a club punch above their weight, at Madrid and United that doesn’t exist, wining everything will never be seen as anything other than par.

Are the attitudes of those clubs so entrenched that even “lesser” squads are immune to his motivation?
 
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