Carroll to start over Parker at Swansea?

[milo]

I'm not particularly sure it is a problem. You improve our strikers to a more consistent level, improve a bit of depth around the squad and we could be challenging for the title. We create chances as it is and the 'lack of a ball player' in midfield sounds bad, but with Dembele and Sandro/Parker we get a solidity that other teams playing two in the centre just don't have.


I think the ball player will only be an issue if we decide to go to a three man midfield, which people say is AVB's preferred formation.

I agree

 

[thfcsteff]

Parker had his best game in a year in the first leg against Inter Milan. Parker has his limitations, he's very one footed for a start, but he is still the best option alongside Dembele. We have played the whole season without a ballplayer in central midfield, it has not suddenly become a problem in the last three games.

I would counter that it has become one because we have not had Lennon as a quick outlet or our preferred full-backs. When all three of those play together, we can ride out Scotty's pirouettances and enjoy what he DOES bring to the midfield (a sense of combat and bite) but the moment we lose that combination, his inability to play the ball forwards with speed is rumbled. Sandro is not Hoddle by any stretch, but his ability to read spaces, intercept and deliver a quick counter-attack pass to one of the more 'creative' outlets is huge. It's such a huge shame Modric isn't around, because if ever there was a player who could slip the likes of Bale, Lennon and Ade in behind defences with this high-line high-pressure system we have, it's him.

But I absolutely see the logic in what you're saying with regards to Scotty. As long as BAE and Walker are the full-backs, as long as Daws and Verts are the CBs and as long as Lennon and Bale are both fit with Ade, then absolutely let's return to what was working. In truth, it's probably AVB's biggest wish right now...

 

[milo]

I would counter that it has become one because we have not had Lennon as a quick outlet or our preferred full-backs. When all three of those play together, we can ride out Scotty's pirouettances and enjoy what he DOES bring to the midfield (a sense of combat and bite) but the moment we lose that combination, his inability to play the ball forwards with speed is rumbled. Sandro is not Hoddle by any stretch, but his ability to read spaces, intercept and deliver a quick counter-attack pass to one of the more 'creative' outlets is huge. It's such a huge shame Modric isn't around, because if ever there was a player who could slip the likes of Bale, Lennon and Ade in behind defences with this high-line high-pressure system we have, it's him.

But I absolutely see the logic in what you're saying with regards to Scotty. As long as BAE and Walker are the full-backs, as long as Daws and Verts are the CBs and as long as Lennon and Bale are both fit with Ade, then absolutely let's return to what was working. In truth, it's probably AVB's biggest wish right now...

I agree that the issue is Lennon being out and as well as that meaning that we lack an outlet, it also means that we are easier to defend against. I do not think that the solution to being weaker on the right is to make yourself weaker in the middle which is why I think it has been a mistake to move Dembele and play Livermore.

 

[africanspurs]

The agendas people carry on this board are ridiculous. They often go on for years.

I would like to come forward as a guilty party for this. i apologise too but i have to say that i dont know why i hold on to things that irritate

a more concerted effort is definitely needed i admit

 

[africanspurs]

I agree that the issue is Lennon being out and as well as that meaning that we lack an outlet, it also means that we are easier to defend against. I do not think that the solution to being weaker on the right is to make yourself weaker in the middle which is why I think it has been a mistake to move Dembele and play Livermore.

play bale left

its really that simple IMO

play him left and wonky the other side

 

[elyid]

play bale left

its really that simple IMO

play him left and wonky the other side

I agree and also thought this during the game on Sunday.

Lennon (or another winger if we buy one in the summer) on the right > Bale in free role / behind striker
No winger > Bale on left and play wonky, either 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1

To play with no wingers just makes us too predictable.

We say we have no backup wingers, but why not just use Bale.

 

[Spursalot]

I agree and also thought this during the game on Sunday.

Lennon (or another winger if we buy one in the summer) on the right > Bale in free role / behind striker
No winger > Bale on left and play wonky, either 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1

To play with no wingers just makes us too predictable.

We say we have no backup wingers, but why not just use Bale.

I would assume, as devils advocate in this case, that the issue for AVB is the lack of goalscoring potential we possess if we switch Bale to the Left.


It reduces the goal threat of Bale, and displaces Siggurdsson, who has not scored many but usually looks threatening on the left. Something he has not done as much when started centrally.

I wouldn't use Siggurdsson to hold the width either, his game is not suited so much to that.

You would need someone on the right, well whoever you pick hasn't scored many, and a replacement AM. Holtby? Who's attacking threat has not been ideal, to partner Ade or Defoe, and the less said about that the better.

 

[elyid]

I would assume, as devils advocate in this case, that the issue for AVB is the lack of goalscoring potential we possess if we switch Bale to the Left.


It reduces the goal threat of Bale, and displaces Siggurdsson, who has not scored many but usually looks threatening on the left. Something he has not done as much when started centrally.

I wouldn't use Siggurdsson to hold the width either, his game is not suited so much to that.

You would need someone on the right, well whoever you pick hasn't scored many, and a replacement AM. Holtby? Who's attacking threat has not been ideal, to partner Ade or Defoe, and the less said about that the better.

I agree with these points also. However, I guess the flip side is that without a proper wide outlet then Bale's goal threat / effectiveness is reduced anyway. I noticed a few times during the Fulham game (albeit only one game) that when Bale picked up the ball in the inside-right channel it was easy for them to double or triple up on him as there was no wider threat etc.

Moving him to the left would give him an easier role (i.e. run and cross) and hopefully free up more space in the center for Dembele and whoever is on the right.

Using Holtby on the right (as you suggest) would help exploit this space too as he can cut inside on his left and link play / shoot, however this prob means we need Walker at RB to provide an overlap.

Personally, i would play this against Swansea as it cant be any worse that last week.

 

[milo]

I think that the impact of Lennon's absence has been made worse by Dempsey also being out. Whilst he is in no way a like for like replacement, he is a more first team ready alternative who provides a goal threat.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think Dembele on the right did provide an outlet to be honest. It worked against Liverpool, I thought, and if we had held on to win a lot of people probably would have hailed it as something of a masterstroke, giving us someone who could beat a man on the wing in the absence of Lennon.

As it was, we played Livermore, who was probably chosen for his solidarity. But I think it's time we probably trusted Carroll if we are going to play Dembele out wide. He will be the closest we can come to not altering the system too much.

 

[Spursalot]

I think Dembele on the right did provide an outlet to be honest. It worked against Liverpool, I thought, and if we had held on to win a lot of people probably would have hailed it as something of a masterstroke, giving us someone who could beat a man on the wing in the absence of Lennon.

As it was, we played Livermore, who was probably chosen for his solidarity. But I think it's time we probably trusted Carroll if we are going to play Dembele out wide. He will be the closest we can come to not altering the system too much.

Carroll would be altering the system far more then Livermore. You would be adding a ball playing mid to a team that has not been using one for the season.

 

[thfcsteff]

I think that the impact of Lennon's absence has been made worse by Dempsey also being out. Whilst he is in no way a like for like replacement, he is a more first team ready alternative who provides a goal threat.

Again a fine post. The man has been worth 7 points alone in terms of toe-pokes, scuffed finishes and being in the right place at the right time.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Carroll would be altering the system far more then Livermore. You would be adding a ball playing mid to a team that has not been using one for the season.

What I meant is that where as Livermore is probably more defensive than Dembele, Carroll would retain a creative element in the midfield. And given that he apparently covers the second most amount of ground in the squad, he will be good defensively too.

 

[milo]

What I meant is that where as Livermore is probably more defensive than Dembele, Carroll would retain a creative element in the midfield. And given that he apparently covers the second most amount of ground in the squad, he will be good defensively too.

I'm not sure that Livermore is more defensive than Dembele. Dembele and Parker/Sandro's role in the team has been to provide a platform for our attacking players. It is not a creative and destroyer partnership. The Premier League pairing that it most reminds me of is Vieira/Petit.

 

[Spursalot]

I'm not sure that Livermore is more defensive than Dembele. Dembele and Parker/Sandro's role in the team has been to provide a platform for our attacking players. It is not a creative and destroyer partnership. The Premier League pairing that it most reminds me of is Vieira/Petit.

The current set up it reminds me most of is Barry and Toure, in a similar way. Toure has the ability to go forwards and beat a few men, and uses it sparingly. Barry just sits around with his defensive duties and his simple five yard passes.


Toure is more of a creative force then Dembele i think, but i wouldn't rate Barry higher than Sandro in that defensive and keep it simple role.

 

[milo]

The current set up it reminds me most of is Barry and Toure, in a similar way. Toure has the ability to go forwards and beat a few men, and uses it sparingly. Barry just sits around with his defensive duties and his simple five yard passes.


Toure is more of a creative force then Dembele i think, but i wouldn't rate Barry higher than Sandro in that defensive and keep it simple role.

I can see that, I certainly see the similarities between Dembele and Toure.

 

[onlyme]

What I meant is that where as Livermore is probably more defensive than Dembele, Carroll would retain a creative element in the midfield. And given that he apparently covers the second most amount of ground in the squad, he will be good defensively too.

Dembele has disappointed me recently. I hope it is a fitness problem. I do not like Dembele/Parker.

 

[LutonSpurs]

http://www.itv.com/sport/football/u...a-cracker-in-england-under-21-training-video/

 

[SteveAWOL]

http://www.itv.com/sport/football/u...a-cracker-in-england-under-21-training-video/

That was almost Modric-esque. Would be nice to have a central midfielder who chips in with a few key goals a season again.

 

[bankrupt]

It would certainly be nice to have a player in our central midfield that understands the importance of passing forward for a change.