Cann we make the top 4 or 5?

[Bishop]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856130550052086259

Quite grim the theme in these videos around how we concede goals

Not many crackers in there for sure

The amount of crosses we concede from kind of makes sense to me, we are equally poor sending our own crosses in. It's probably fairly difficult to drill the team to defend from crosses when we don't have any specialist crossers of the ball other than Porro. So on the training pitch how how difficult can the crossing drills actually be when we have such poor crosses of the ball. Then add that we do that silly thing were we drill crossing to an area (something the opposition don't actually do) rather than actually to players and we have a defense that is unprepared for the real world action during a live match.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The amount of crosses we concede from kind of makes sense to me, we are equally poor sending our own crosses in. It's probably fairly difficult to drill the team to defend from crosses when we don't have any specialist crossers of the ball other than Porro. So on the training pitch how how difficult can the crossing drills actually be when we have such poor crosses of the ball. Then add that we do that silly thing were we drill crossing to an area (something the opposition don't actually do) rather than actually to players and we have a defense that is unprepared for the real world action during a live match.

You are linking how we attack vs how we defend. I think they are very different issues
But imo we’re criminally bad at picking up players in key, basic areas
If we mark the men they will have a much harder time to score
Joe many times in those clips do you see our defenders flap their arms in the air aghast that we have conceded
It’s woefully bad and nothing to with the tactics. If we played an 8 man defence and the players didn’t mark like that we would still concede like that
I don’t think it’s drilling the players, I thinking it’s an inability of the defenders to focus
Could be because they are thinking of the next attack they will be supporting of course.

 

[Muttley]

You are linking how we attack vs how we defend. I think they are very different issues
But imo we’re criminally bad at picking up players in key, basic areas
If we mark the men they will have a much harder time to score
Joe many times in those clips do you see our defenders flap their arms in the air aghast that we have conceded
It’s woefully bad and nothing to with the tactics. If we played an 8 man defence and the players didn’t mark like that we would still concede like that
I don’t think it’s drilling the players, I thinking it’s an inability of the defenders to focus
Could be because they are thinking of the next attack they will be supporting of course.

I realised when watching that video that I've been quite harsh on Johnson who has been poor defensively in a lot of key moments. It's Sonny that I really should have the downer on. He didn't even make a single effort on any of those goals that came from Udogie's side. Johnson is not defending aggressively enough. Sonny isn't defending AT ALL.

I like the reel though. It shows that the coaches need to be drilling the 3 main centre halves to get much tighter in these situations. You don't want to get rolled, but standing a yard off and giving the opposition free reign is inexcusable for both coach and player. So much work can be done with the 2 full-backs and their supporting wide players as well.

In some ways we should be optimistic. This stuff is very fixable.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I realised when watching that video that I've been quite harsh on Johnson who has been poor defensively in a lot of key moments. It's Sonny that I really should have the downer on. He didn't even make a single effort on any of those goals that came from Udogie's side. Johnson is not defending aggressively enough. Sonny isn't defending AT ALL.

I like the reel though. It shows that the coaches need to be drilling the 3 main centre halves to get much tighter in these situations. You don't want to get rolled, but standing a yard off and giving the opposition free reign is inexcusable for both coach and player. So much work can be done with the 2 full-backs and their supporting wide players as well.

In some ways we should be optimistic. This stuff is very fixable.

They all really have to up their accountability
It just takes one player to take charge and the other will follow imo
Be great if it was Johnson or son who are both perceived to be weaker players on that front

 

[Muttley]

They all really have to up their accountability
It just takes one player to take charge and the other will follow imo
Be great if it was Johnson or son who are both perceived to be weaker players on that front

Are you suggesting that our captain would do captain-like things on the pitch? Surely not?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Are you suggesting that our captain would do captain-like things on the pitch? Surely not?

I don’t rate him a captain
Never have
But he does try to defend. He is just bad at it

 

[Muttley]

I don’t rate him a captain
Never have
But he does try to defend. He is just bad at it

Nah, he has consistently refused to work had enough at it. From Poch to Ange, it's so obvious he doesn't give that side of his game a priority.

It shows a huge mental weakness, just like not taking a deserved rollicking from his captain all those years ago.

 

[Bishop]

You are linking how we attack vs how we defend. I think they are very different issues
But imo we’re criminally bad at picking up players in key, basic areas
If we mark the men they will have a much harder time to score
Joe many times in those clips do you see our defenders flap their arms in the air aghast that we have conceded
It’s woefully bad and nothing to with the tactics. If we played an 8 man defence and the players didn’t mark like that we would still concede like that
I don’t think it’s drilling the players, I thinking it’s an inability of the defenders to focus
Could be because they are thinking of the next attack they will be supporting of course.

I'm just seeing a similarity. We are poor at dealing with crosses into the box and equally poor actually playing crosses into the box. It just makes sense that we aren't able to replicate the danger created via crossing because we are poor at actually crossing the ball.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm just seeing a similarity. We are poor at dealing with crosses into the box and equally poor actually playing crosses into the box. It just makes sense that we aren't able to replicate the danger created via crossing because we are poor at actually crossing the ball.

Maybe
Buy this was also an issue even in contes time
The only time time I’ve seen a player be back defending a cross was when Johnson ended up with stitches

 

[Bishop]

Maybe
Buy this was also an issue even in contes time
The only time time I’ve seen a player be back defending a cross was when Johnson ended up with stitches

I'm sorting of tying it all in. If we expect crosses to be to an area rather than to a player, it makes sense that we aren't tight to the attackers because we are actually defending the space where we anticipate the ball going as opposed to where it ends up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm sorting of tying it all in. If we expect crosses to be to an area rather than to a player, it makes sense that we aren't tight to the attackers because we are actually defending the space where we anticipate the ball going as opposed to where it ends up.

We don’t actually get many crosses against I believe
We’re just horrendous at managing them
We have NO defenders decent in the air
And our full backs/wingers don’t stop crosses
Fully agree we defend space. That’s why someone is always free to slam in the bouncing ball

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

You are linking how we attack vs how we defend. I think they are very different issues
But imo we’re criminally bad at picking up players in key, basic areas
If we mark the men they will have a much harder time to score
Joe many times in those clips do you see our defenders flap their arms in the air aghast that we have conceded
It’s woefully bad and nothing to with the tactics. If we played an 8 man defence and the players didn’t mark like that we would still concede like that
I don’t think it’s drilling the players, I thinking it’s an inability of the defenders to focus
Could be because they are thinking of the next attack they will be supporting of course.

I've said this for weeks. (And it was going on last season as well)

The ONLY danger in the box is a human being. It's the only thing that will put the ball in the net.

Defending by nature is far easier than scoring goals. BUT if you are a striker and you are not marked your job becomes 10x easier. You have time to look, assess, place, take the best option. Conversely a defender can get away with just getting a toe in, nudging, blocking, tackling, a deflection of their body, a feint header, to get their job done BUT most of those actions are not available to them if they're are not marking tightly.

The only time you should be marking space or taking up a position is when everyone is marked, then you take up the smartest position eg the front post to stop that ball across the six yard line.
(And Being outnumbered is NOT the problem, we rarely are)

I'm not sure if it's concentration, communication, coaching or just individually not being up to it. Who knows. But the problem feels so basic.
But it's happening and happening often.

If someone gets done by smart movement, out physicalled, or blinding trickery from time to time so be it. Hats off.

But opposition must watch the goals we concede (that granted, are less this season) and must think, we've got a chance today/tonight.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I've said this for weeks.

The ONLY danger in the box is a human being. It's the only thing that will put the ball in the net.

Defending by nature is far easier than scoring goals. BUT if you are a striker and you are not marked your job becomes 10x easier. You have time to look, assess, place, take the best option. Conversely a defender can get away with just getting a toe in, nudging, blocking, tackling, a deflection of their body, a feint header, to get their job done BUT most of those actions are not available to them if they're are not marking tightly.

The only time you should be marking space or taking up a position is when everyone is marked, then you take up the smartest position eg the front post to stop that ball across the six yard line.
(And Being outnumbered is NOT the problem, we rarely are)

I'm not sure if it's concentration, communication, coaching or just individually not being up to it. Who knows. But the problem feels so basic.
But it's happening and happening often.

If someone gets done by smart movement, out physicalled, or blinding trickery from time to time so be it. Hats off.

But opposition must watch the goals we concede (that granted, are less this season) and must think, we've got a chance today/tonight.

One thing my nephew said to me (he is a qualified coach and is possibly ending up at Tottenham after his masters) is that the issue clubs have with games coming thick and fast is you can’t coach. After every game it’s a days recovery, maybe a days tactical work, rest day, hame
The coaching done with video and 121
So if you have a week break you can focus on the next game
It makes sense when you look at the inconsistency in the league

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

One thing my nephew said to me (he is a qualified coach and is possibly ending up at Tottenham after his masters) is that the issue clubs have with games coming thick and fast is you can’t coach. After every game it’s a days recovery, maybe a days tactical work, rest day, hame
The coaching done with video and 121
So if you have a week break you can focus on the next game
It makes sense when you look at the inconsistency in the league

Yes, the churn is always a problem, especially factoring in travel as well.
BUT we had endless time last season, with several gaps that were longer than even 7 days, and all of our current back five and CMs were at the club.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yes, the churn is always a problem, especially factoring in travel as well.
BUT we had endless time last season, with several gaps that were longer than even 7 days, and all of our current back five and CMs were at the club.

They were
And I know people will disagree with me but we have fixed last seasons issues to some degree (counter attacks and corners)
The inability to defend crosses may be a new focus when the coaching team have time
People focus on the way we play as a weakness but these goals realigned because of a high line or passing out (in most cases)
It’s development of the team

 

[Muttley]

One thing my nephew said to me (he is a qualified coach and is possibly ending up at Tottenham after his masters) is that the issue clubs have with games coming thick and fast is you can’t coach. After every game it’s a days recovery, maybe a days tactical work, rest day, hame
The coaching done with video and 121
So if you have a week break you can focus on the next game
It makes sense when you look at the inconsistency in the league

Spot on. Jose preached it. He managed when Spurs were in all the competitions and back to back seasons with COVID project startup and minimal pre-season. I can't stand the guy, but will give him that as genuine feedback.

Ange probably had more tactical time in last season's 41 games than any Spurs manager for years. He's probably noticing the difference this season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Spot on. Jose preached it. He managed when Spurs were in all the competitions and back to back seasons with COVID project startup and minimal pre-season. I can't stand the guy, but will give him that as genuine feedback.

Ange probably had more tactical time in last season's 41 games than any Spurs manager for years. He's probably noticing the difference this season.

I assume so
He did also lose his head coach to Birmingham which no one thinks about

 

[braineclipse]

One thing my nephew said to me (he is a qualified coach and is possibly ending up at Tottenham after his masters) is that the issue clubs have with games coming thick and fast is you can’t coach. After every game it’s a days recovery, maybe a days tactical work, rest day, hame
The coaching done with video and 121
So if you have a week break you can focus on the next game
It makes sense when you look at the inconsistency in the league

Absolutely.

And a lot of what the players do on the pitch is "automated", a result of years and years of playing (good stuff and bad stuff). Some things probably can be fixed quite quickly by telling players what to do in a situation, but most of those changes take time and time on the training ground.

And combine that with fatigue and mental fatigue as well as being under pressure and not in a good flow state.

The back in Europe thing is a real thing. Hopefully as the season progresses we get more used to it and can adjust.

 

[braineclipse]

They were
And I know people will disagree with me but we have fixed last seasons issues to some degree (counter attacks and corners)
The inability to defend crosses may be a new focus when the coaching team have time
People focus on the way we play as a weakness but these goals realigned because of a high line or passing out (in most cases)
It’s development of the team

Fully agreed and a very important point imo.

If we were just seeing the same thing over and over again I would be way more sceptical of Ange as the right man for the job.

We'll never get to the point where we run out of issues to fix, but gradually some being fixed while new one's arise is part of improvement. For me the biggest one now isn't tactical, but mentality (and things that will have to be fixed by transfers or young players developing).

Hopefully we get to the point where the issues that need fixing get smaller and less impactful on results.

I'm willing to be rather patient with Ange. But probably he has to show significant improvement on the bigger issues right now (whatever they actually are) in time for improvements in results over the second half of the season at least.