BIG DECISIONS RE: PLAYERS - SOME SPECULATIVE FUN

[spurspinter1]

Get Poch back. Seriously. He'd have a field day with this squad, particularly the young talent we now have.

Not so sure myself but it's a well trodden path in terms of discussion on here so probably not worth getting into. He's too busy immersing himself in the long history of soccerball for now, that probably says enough for me.

The real gems are still way off being able to form a key part of a team competing at the top, hopefully we'll have the right guy in charge when that time arrives whoever it may be...

 

[Terry Cunningham]

We should sell Johnson, he will never be a top drawer player imo.
Romero id sell for an offer around 80 mill.
Richo can go , so can Werner.
We need a goalkeeper who will physically command his area. Our midfield is ok but we still havent got a real top drawer player in there.
And yes, bring Poch back and back him.
He turned Chelski around in 1 season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Arsenal signed Rice after their first 2nd place finish when they had minimal gaps in the team that needed filling - prior to that they were not buying at that level and most likely they wouldn't have been able to either afford or tempt a player like Rice while they were not back in the CL and looking strong on the pitch.

Before you can buy that level of player you need to first build a team that they would want to join - your 100m PL proven players aren't joining a team in limbo that are out of the CL, why would they? If things click under Ange and we get ourselves in a good position in the league and then we don't start acting like big boys (signings of the calibre of Rice) then it will be time to question the ambition IMV

I had not considered that point. It is well worth emphasising in fairness to the discussion. Well observed.

 

[Muttley]

I had not considered that point. It is well worth emphasising in fairness to the discussion. Well observed.

What's interesting is that in 21/22 and before Arsenal were only buying U25s to replace all those senior, overpaid, underperforming players.

Then in 22/23, they bought Marquinos 28, Trossard 27, Jorginho 30, Zinchencko 25, Jesus 25. They switched to 25-30 year olds (plus Kiwior and Vieira) and went for quantity over quality. They stretched their budget very thin, buying 7 players. Some would argue it nearly worked as well, having the depth to finish within 2 point of winning the league. Problem is, they stretched their budget too far and now have some average deadwood that needs shifting. Out of those 7 players, I'd only retain Trossard and Jesus as squad players. In my opinion, they mostly bought badly.

As they moved to 23/24, they spent big on Rice, Havertz and Timber and got Raya in on loan. They changed strategy again and went for quality over quantity. Ditto 24/25 with Calafiori, Merino, Timber plus converting Raya's loan.

My conclusion is that I think Spurs should skip that second stage of buying a large number of 25-30 year olds. We should stick to signings like Dorgu who is 19/20. Let's plug the squad gaps with these types of signings. Ederson is 25, Delap is 21, Joao Gomes is 23, Cirkin is 22, Wharton is 20. All these examples of links feel really good to me. I'd stick with this transfer strategy and let Ange do the rest.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What's interesting is that in 21/22 and before Arsenal were only buying U25s to replace all those senior, overpaid, underperforming players.

Then in 22/23, they bought Marquinos 28, Trossard 27, Jorginho 30, Zinchencko 25, Jesus 25. They switched to 25-30 year olds (plus Kiwior and Vieira) and went for quantity over quality. They stretched their budget very thin, buying 7 players. Some would argue it nearly worked as well, having the depth to finish within 2 point of winning the league. Problem is, they stretched their budget too far and now have some average deadwood that needs shifting. Out of those 7 players, I'd only retain Trossard and Jesus as squad players. In my opinion, they mostly bought badly.

As they moved to 23/24, they spent big on Rice, Havertz and Timber and got Raya in on loan. They changed strategy again and went for quality over quantity. Ditto 24/25 with Calafiori, Merino, Timber plus converting Raya's loan.

My conclusion is that I think Spurs should skip that second stage of buying a large number of 25-30 year olds. We should stick to signings like Dorgu who is 19/20. Let's plug the squad gaps with these types of signings. Ederson is 25, Delap is 21, Joao Gomes is 23, Cirkin is 22, Wharton is 20. All these examples of links feel really good to me. I'd stick with this transfer strategy and let Ange do the rest.

I believe we are trying to plug the gates with the youth which is why we signed 2 very young CBS, the young player of the year from the championship, a very young and highly regarded winger in Odebert, Bergvall who Barca wanted. Hell Drago is only 22
None are starters now though and we still have gaps in the squad
Left back/ left centre back and reserve keeper being obvious ones where we don’t have quantity let alone quality
And I like the suggestions

 

[braineclipse]

I believe we are trying to plug the gates with the youth which is why we signed 2 very young CBS, the young player of the year from the championship, a very young and highly regarded winger in Odebert, Bergvall who Barca wanted. Hell Drago is only 22
None are starters now though and we still have gaps in the squad
Left back/ left centre back and reserve keeper being obvious ones where we don’t have quantity let alone quality
And I like the suggestions

Agreed, but also positions where a top level player could make a big difference. DM, wide dribbler, Maddison replacement if he doesn't step back up.

We can't fix all those issues with ready made solutions, we don't have the money. The club will have to be smart about where they focus that money for immediate solutions and where to continue to go for younger players.

It's difficult because we don't know if, and how quickly the younger players will step up. We sure could do with one or two of them stepping up this season.

 

[braineclipse]

Arsenal signed Rice after their first 2nd place finish when they had minimal gaps in the team that needed filling - prior to that they were not buying at that level and most likely they wouldn't have been able to either afford or tempt a player like Rice while they were not back in the CL and looking strong on the pitch.

Before you can buy that level of player you need to first build a team that they would want to join - your 100m PL proven players aren't joining a team in limbo that are out of the CL, why would they? If things click under Ange and we get ourselves in a good position in the league and then we don't start acting like big boys (signings of the calibre of Rice) then it will be time to question the ambition IMV

Excellent post.

We're in a strong position financially now. Our net spend over the last years is impressive in isolation, even more impressive when considering that we haven't been in the CL.

If/when we get back to the CL we'll be in an even stronger position financially. That's when we can start making those top level signings for the reasons you mentioned.

For now it's how to get there and how to get there in a sustainable way where we also improve the squad sufficiently to be in a position where one or two high profile players can sufficiently plug the gaps.

 

[braineclipse]

I'm not sure a new first choice goalkeeper is high enough up the list of priorities to make that worth it.

We need someone who is more commanding in the area and a calmer presence, but we also need a GK that is great/good at shot stopping, distribution, one vs one's.

Most realistic targets will probably have one or two weaknesses in those areas. Not seen enough of Kelleher to have strong opinions on him being the exception to that or not though. If he's the exception and can be affordable it may be worth it.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agreed, but also positions where a top level player could make a big difference. DM, wide dribbler, Maddison replacement if he doesn't step back up.

We can't fix all those issues with ready made solutions, we don't have the money. The club will have to be smart about where they focus that money for immediate solutions and where to continue to go for younger players.

It's difficult because we don't know if, and how quickly the younger players will step up. We sure could do with one or two of them stepping up this season.

It’s all steps
If going forward it’s a ready player or two each window and a tough player or two each summer that’s sensible

 

[braineclipse]

It’s all steps
If going forward it’s a ready player or two each window and a tough player or two each summer that’s sensible

I agree.

We did sign three ready made players the first summer Ange was here with Vicario, VdV and Maddison. Then added another CB that we desperately needed in Dragusin in the January window. Young, but ready. Imo not a great profile fit, but we prioritised readiness because we really needed a ready made CB option.

This summer only Solanke that was ready made. I think perhaps the view of that has been slightly skewed so far by Odobert's injury. Only 19 of course, but with a full PL season behind him he was probably the one of the youngsters signed that we were most hopeful of making a more immediate impact.

I guess we could have gone for one more "ready made" and more expensive player like Eze instead of Odobert. If we came fairly close to what we could spend financially that probably would have meant not signing Gray and leaving us even shorter for full back cover and without Gray who seems like a great talent. Or with a more "make do" cheaper full back option.

There are no perfect solutions. We prioritised talent and potential, I think that was sensible.

 

[braineclipse]

What's interesting is that in 21/22 and before Arsenal were only buying U25s to replace all those senior, overpaid, underperforming players.

Then in 22/23, they bought Marquinos 28, Trossard 27, Jorginho 30, Zinchencko 25, Jesus 25. They switched to 25-30 year olds (plus Kiwior and Vieira) and went for quantity over quality. They stretched their budget very thin, buying 7 players. Some would argue it nearly worked as well, having the depth to finish within 2 point of winning the league. Problem is, they stretched their budget too far and now have some average deadwood that needs shifting. Out of those 7 players, I'd only retain Trossard and Jesus as squad players. In my opinion, they mostly bought badly.

As they moved to 23/24, they spent big on Rice, Havertz and Timber and got Raya in on loan. They changed strategy again and went for quality over quantity. Ditto 24/25 with Calafiori, Merino, Timber plus converting Raya's loan.

My conclusion is that I think Spurs should skip that second stage of buying a large number of 25-30 year olds. We should stick to signings like Dorgu who is 19/20. Let's plug the squad gaps with these types of signings. Ederson is 25, Delap is 21, Joao Gomes is 23, Cirkin is 22, Wharton is 20. All these examples of links feel really good to me. I'd stick with this transfer strategy and let Ange do the rest.

Instead of filling out the squad with 25-30 year olds we've filled out the squad with Bergvall, Gray, Odobert and Yang. And also with Werner.

Will take a bit longer to get the (hopefully) positive impact of that compared to getting 25-30 year old squad player + level players. But I think it's the better approach for where we are as a club. It does leave Ange struggling a bit, that should be taken into consideration when evaluating how well he's doing.

 

[Lemonade Money]

A lot of nit-picking going on in this thread. The manager and players still need time. Most of our players have proved they can be the standard required. I would focus on the ones that don't turn up regularly, and for me that's Maddison and Forster in terms of performance, and Richarlison in terms of injuries. I think we need more fight and defensive stability, and for that reason I would use Son and Johnson as 60 minute subs in certain (most?) games. Maybe Richarlison too, if that helps with fatigue and his usefulness. And get a hypnotist for Werner.

 

[Jordinho]

A lot of nit-picking going on in this thread. The manager and players still need time. Most of our players have proved they can be the standard required. I would focus on the ones that don't turn up regularly, and for me that's Maddison and Forster in terms of performance, and Richarlison in terms of injuries. I think we need more fight and defensive stability, and for that reason I would use Son and Johnson as 60 minute subs in certain (most?) games. Maybe Richarlison too, if that helps with fatigue and his usefulness. And get a hypnotist for Werner.

The lack of consistency is why I'd sell Romero and Bissouma. I doesn't matter if you're world class on your day when you switch off as often as they do.

 

[Lemonade Money]

The lack of consistency is why I'd sell Romero and Bissouma. I doesn't matter if you're world class on your day when you switch off as often as they do.

You are suggesting selling the biggest fight we've got in us. Is it switching off, or being left exposed by their team mates too often?

 

[Jordinho]

You are suggesting selling the biggest fight we've got in us. Is it switching off, or being left exposed by their team mates too often?

I want them gone because there is no fight. The lack of leadership from both is appalling.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Arsenal signed Rice after their first 2nd place finish when they had minimal gaps in the team that needed filling - prior to that they were not buying at that level and most likely they wouldn't have been able to either afford or tempt a player like Rice while they were not back in the CL and looking strong on the pitch.

Before you can buy that level of player you need to first build a team that they would want to join - your 100m PL proven players aren't joining a team in limbo that are out of the CL, why would they? If things click under Ange and we get ourselves in a good position in the league and then we don't start acting like big boys (signings of the calibre of Rice) then it will be time to question the ambition IMV

Indeed. Unless you are financially doping, and wrong decisions/signings are not of significance, you run a model that will always be a cycle.

Where you are in that cycle will determine the scope of player you are after and probably likely to attract. Top end players (£80-100m) are for clubs looking for that final piece who is guaranteed to take their level up. But this also only comes about when the people above the manager have full confidence in that manager.

It's a massive cash commitment for businesses the size of football clubs.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I want them gone because there is no fight. The lack of leadership from both is appalling.

I dont think leadership in sport now looks like what you think it does. Its principally about staying calm and holding your nerve to the game plan. Its not being a maverick gobbrick anymore. The individual has to be sacrificed to the collective if you want the best results.

 

[glasgowspur]

I dont think leadership in sport now looks like what you think it does. Its principally about staying calm and holding your nerve to the game plan. Its not being a maverick gobbrick anymore. The individual has to be sacrificed to the collective if you want the best results.

You make it sound like the Borg!

 

[Gutter Boy]

You make it sound like the Borg!

Its why football has become pretty boring. Mavericks and rebels dont make it through academies any more.