Bar chart races

[Lilbaz]

watching the videos it seems that over the years, compared to us arsenal had the better strategy with less transfer spending and higher wages. not sure how to factor player sales into it.

As gazza said a net spend + wages would show better. But then you'd have to compare to league finishes/cups... to see which clubs had the best strategy. Arsenal did under graham and wenger that's for sure.

But it's the past. The future is what is important.

 

[MKSpur]

..... they're right Covid is on the rise again

Covid has been one very expensive signing!

 

[Spur of the moment]

Top money buys top players buys trophies buys more money buys more top players more trophies buys ...

As gazza said a net spend + wages would show better. But then you'd have to compare to league finishes/cups... to see which clubs had the best strategy. Arsenal did under graham and wenger that's for sure.

But it's the past. The future is what is important.

True.

But the future needs to be informed by the past, no?

 

[Lilbaz]

Top money buys top players buys trophies buys more money buys more top players more trophies buys ...

True.

But the future needs to be informed by the past, no?

Not really in the case of football. We are now in a different positon to arsenal when they were under graham and wenger.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Not really in the case of football. We are now in a different positon to arsenal when they were under graham and wenger.

No I think I'm on a different track to you. I meant more generally. Learn from your mistakes and all that. Was thinking about the windfall from the Bale transfer. We were like a kid in a sweet shop. The only buy that looked properly thought through at the time was Eriksen. As to the others, I remember being shocked at the standard of some of those buys pretty much from the off.

Hopefully we have learnt a few lessons from that episode this time round.

But only time will tell.

 

[Lilbaz]

No I think I'm on a different track to you. I meant more generally. Learn from your mistakes and all that. Was thinking about the windfall from the Bale transfer. We were like a kid in a sweet shop. The only buy that looked properly thought through at the time was Eriksen. As to the others, I remember being shocked at the standard of some of those buys pretty much from the off.

Hopefully we have learnt a few lessons from that episode this time round.

But only time will tell.

It's different personnel now though. Conte seems to know what it takes to be a prem player. Think him and paratici make a good team. The signings so far between them look good.

 

[metalgear]

As gazza said a net spend + wages would show better. But then you'd have to compare to league finishes/cups... to see which clubs had the best strategy. Arsenal did under graham and wenger that's for sure.

But it's the past. The future is what is important.

It's also the mix of the spend. Looks like higher wages correlate better to league positions. We spent more on transfers and less on wages compared to Arsenal for a long while. Then comes Man U to prove throwing money anyway doesn't help anything. Lol

 

[Spur of the moment]

Okay so it's clear that higher wages won't necessarily guarantee success. Other ingredients aslo need to be in place, such as the right owner / manager /coach. But it's overwhelmingly clear from those YouTube videos that by and large the bigger your spend, the better your chances of success.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

It's also the mix of the spend. Looks like higher wages correlate better to league positions. We spent more on transfers and less on wages compared to Arsenal for a long while. Then comes Man U to prove throwing money anyway doesn't help anything. Lol

You can’t look at transfer spending without looking at player sales as well though, the 2 are intrinsically linked. In that long period of history it shows we’ve spent a few million more than Arsenal, but we’ve received almost 100m more on player sales, so net we’ve spent less.

Wages they are almost double, because in that period they’ve been better and been able to attract better players for the most part.

Edit: I mean to say, we could have given Emerson, Aurier, Gary Doherty, Scales, etc. The same wages as the goons were giving Ashley Cole, Toure, Viera, Henry, etc. But we would have been no better off points wise! The key is scouting and attracting players, then having a top coach in place. Just doubling our players wages in that period wouldn’t have achieved anything.

 

[nelto]

The FA Cup one is a bit depressing, it used to be our competition.

 

[Lilbaz]

The FA Cup one is a bit depressing, it used to be our competition.

For 2 years.

 

[Spur of the moment]

For 2 years.

6 FA cup wins (and 12 trophies in total) between 1961-1991, all before the dawn of the money-doping era. Kind of underscores the whole point of this discussion.

 

[Lilbaz]

6 FA cup wins (and 12 trophies in total) between 1961-1991, all before the dawn of the money-doping era. Kind of underscores the whole point of this discussion.

The money doping era fully started in 2003 with abramovich. Other teams had won more fa cups than us by then. We only had the most (8) for 2 years before utd matched us. They then had 9 by 95.

The fa cup being our cup was only ever true for 2 years.

 

[nelto]

For 2 years.

That was kinda my point. I still find it hard to believe that we didn't continue winning it on occasion after '91. I still find hard to believe that we've contrived to lose so many semi-finals either...

 

[Lilbaz]

That was kinda my point. I still find it hard to believe that we didn't continue winning it on occasion after '91. I still find hard to believe that we've contrived to lose so many semi-finals either...

What is it 8 on the trot?

 

[nelto]

What is it 8 on the trot?

Yep, 8. Whilst not wishing to be depressing, here is the full horror story:

April 21 2018 Tottenham’s 2-1 defeat to Manchester United in the FA Cup semi-final on Saturday at Wembley was their eighth successive loss in the last four of the famous competition.

It is the worst run of losses at this stage and means they have not reached the final since 1991.

Here, Press Association Sport takes a look at their previous failings in the semi-finals over the last 25 years.

Arsenal 1 Tottenham 0 (1992-93)

The north London clubs met at Wembley at the semi-final stage of the FA Cup for the second time in three years and Arsenal gained revenge for their 1991 loss. Tony Adams’ second-half header was enough for the 10-man Gunners, who went on to beat Sheffield Wednesday in the final.

Tottenham 1 Everton 4 (1994-95)

Another run deep into the competition came to an end at the hands of a Daniel Amokachi-inspired Everton. The Nigerian scored twice, with Matt Jackson and Graham Stuart also notching at Elland Road. Jurgen Klinsmann scored a consolation for Spurs from the spot.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2 Tottenham 0 (1998-99)

Spurs did not get much more luck across the Pennines at Old Trafford as Saudi Sportswashing Machine downed George Graham’s side in extra-time. A goalless 90 minutes was followed by two Alan Shearer goals in the additional period as they suffered more semi-final heartache.

Arsenal 2 Tottenham 1 (2000-01)

Tottenham were back at Old Trafford two years later, bizarrely for another north London derby. Spurs were big underdogs but took an early lead through Gary Doherty. But Patrick Vieira levelled before the break and Robert Pires gave Arsene Wenger’s side a place in the final and bragging rights.

Tottenham 0 Portsmouth 2 (2009-10)

One of Spurs’ biggest disappointments was their Wembley clash with Portsmouth, who were on a fast-track to relegation from the Premier League. The league form went out of the window, though, as extra-time goals from Frederic Piquionne and Kevin-Prince Boateng sent Pompey through to the final.

Tottenham 1 Chelsea 5 (2011-12)

A London derby humbling came in 2012 as Spurs were blitzed by Chelsea. Quickfire goals either side of half-time put the Blues 2-0 up before Gareth Bale gave Tottenham hope. But three goals in the final 13 minutes saw Roberto Di Matteo’s men run wild.

Chelsea 4 Tottenham 2 (2016-17)

Chelsea were again the opponents as Spurs fell short again. They would have fancied going on to win when Dele Alli equalised at 2-2 early in the second half after Willian scored for Chelsea either side of Harry Kane’s goal. But it was Antonio Conte’s side who kicked on, booking a final spot thanks to goals in the final 15 minutes from Eden Hazard and Nemanja Matic.

 

[Lilbaz]

Yep, 8. Whilst not wishing to be depressing, here is the full horror story:

April 21 2018 Tottenham’s 2-1 defeat to Manchester United in the FA Cup semi-final on Saturday at Wembley was their eighth successive loss in the last four of the famous competition.

It is the worst run of losses at this stage and means they have not reached the final since 1991.

Here, Press Association Sport takes a look at their previous failings in the semi-finals over the last 25 years.

Arsenal 1 Tottenham 0 (1992-93)

The north London clubs met at Wembley at the semi-final stage of the FA Cup for the second time in three years and Arsenal gained revenge for their 1991 loss. Tony Adams’ second-half header was enough for the 10-man Gunners, who went on to beat Sheffield Wednesday in the final.

Tottenham 1 Everton 4 (1994-95)

Another run deep into the competition came to an end at the hands of a Daniel Amokachi-inspired Everton. The Nigerian scored twice, with Matt Jackson and Graham Stuart also notching at Elland Road. Jurgen Klinsmann scored a consolation for Spurs from the spot.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2 Tottenham 0 (1998-99)

Spurs did not get much more luck across the Pennines at Old Trafford as Saudi Sportswashing Machine downed George Graham’s side in extra-time. A goalless 90 minutes was followed by two Alan Shearer goals in the additional period as they suffered more semi-final heartache.

Arsenal 2 Tottenham 1 (2000-01)

Tottenham were back at Old Trafford two years later, bizarrely for another north London derby. Spurs were big underdogs but took an early lead through Gary Doherty. But Patrick Vieira levelled before the break and Robert Pires gave Arsene Wenger’s side a place in the final and bragging rights.

Tottenham 0 Portsmouth 2 (2009-10)

One of Spurs’ biggest disappointments was their Wembley clash with Portsmouth, who were on a fast-track to relegation from the Premier League. The league form went out of the window, though, as extra-time goals from Frederic Piquionne and Kevin-Prince Boateng sent Pompey through to the final.

Tottenham 1 Chelsea 5 (2011-12)

A London derby humbling came in 2012 as Spurs were blitzed by Chelsea. Quickfire goals either side of half-time put the Blues 2-0 up before Gareth Bale gave Tottenham hope. But three goals in the final 13 minutes saw Roberto Di Matteo’s men run wild.

Chelsea 4 Tottenham 2 (2016-17)

Chelsea were again the opponents as Spurs fell short again. They would have fancied going on to win when Dele Alli equalised at 2-2 early in the second half after Willian scored for Chelsea either side of Harry Kane’s goal. But it was Antonio Conte’s side who kicked on, booking a final spot thanks to goals in the final 15 minutes from Eden Hazard and Nemanja Matic.

Lets just win it next season.

 

[parklane1]

Bottle jobs.

 

[Spur of the moment]

The money doping era fully started in 2003 with abramovich. Other teams had won more fa cups than us by then. We only had the most (8) for 2 years before utd matched us. They then had 9 by 95.

The fa cup being our cup was only ever true for 2 years.

Again, I'm not disagreeing with you Lilbaz, just making a tangential point about the relationship between money and trophies.

Namely that we won most of our trophies when the playing field was generally less distorted. Although come to think of it during the Nicholson era WE were among the biggest spenders of all.

And we all know why we struggled in the 90s, but that's when the financial bonus of qualifying regularly for the CL allowed Arsenal (thanks to Wenger), the already massive Liverpool and Man United to disappear over the horizon. By the early Noughties those clubs had already established something of a hegemony at the top of the PL, joined from time to time by other big-spenders eg Leeds and Saudi Sportswashing Machine before Chelski and Emirates Marketing Project gatecrashed the party. By the time we were beginning to get our brick together from the mid-Noughties on we'd been well and truly squeezed.

 

[Bullet]

The money doping era fully started in 2003 with abramovich. Other teams had won more fa cups than us by then. We only had the most (8) for 2 years before utd matched us. They then had 9 by 95.

The fa cup being our cup was only ever true for 2 years.

Hugely disagree. Are you too young to remember those years?
Ridsdale was spending way above what Leeds earned to try to catch Cheatski... they got to the CL Semi in 2001 and 6 years later were in League One. Leeds cheated massively to try to catch Cheatski who were sold for £1 due to Bates spending waaaay above what they earned, trying to compete with others...

Newcash too... Boro...all the while little old Spurs were trying to do things the right way and getting kicked in the face every time