AVB's one upfront system doomed for failure at WHL

[mattls]

Good interview with Graham Roberts on Talksport earlier. Talked about the atmosphere and football under AVB that we've played at WHL

He touched on the fact that we keep passing it round the back too many times and not getting on the front foot more which is frustrating the fans, me included. Too much tippy tappy stuff and lack of a leader figure like himself

Last year we played a powerful dynamic 4-4-2 at home under arry with 2 wingers and 2 strikers and it was great to watch and this year we dont really have a clear way of playing. He said that AVB needs to play Defoe and Ade at home and go at teams more and then the fans will get behind the team which is exactly what I've been saying and move to the system that he used so well at Porto when he had Falcao and Hulk netting 90 goals in a season.. Basically give us something more and we won't get frustrated basically

 

[Modric THFC]

So much with this theory (with very little evidence to back it up) of AVB hating 442 and being obsessed with 1 up front.

 

[DHSF]

So much with this theory (with very little evidence to back it up) of AVB hating 442 and being obsessed with 1 up front.

No one said he hates it.

Just that he is obsessed with 4231. And he has been for what? a season now in English football?

Anyways good he is playing 442 - this is the kind of game people get confidence back

 

[mattls]

Anyone watching tonight will clearly see that 2 upfront works far better at WHL.. We were bright, dynamic and it was so much better to watch. Defoe and Ade might not be the ideal 2 right now (i'd prefer someone who could drop in the hole and join up play alongside Ade) but with 2 goal scorers on the pitch and having 2 men in the box every time we attack and the wingers bombing on we look much more treating, and its so much better to watch compared to the other stuff we've been serving up at home so far this year. Fans seemed to enjoy it more aswell.

We didnt try to over play it at the back and we got the ball to the wingers quickly. Well done to AVB for seeing the light, even if it took you 7 home games to work that one out.

Thought tom Carroll was great tonight, thought he should have come on at the weekend instead of Siguardsson.

 

[DHSF]

I liked Carrol - I wouldnt play him in the big games just yet but panathanaikos etc.

He did more than Sig has done in his entire career at spurs thus far

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Anyone watching tonight will clearly see that 2 upfront works far better at WHL.. We were bright, dynamic and it was so much better to watch. Defoe and Ade might not be the ideal 2 right now (i'd prefer someone who could drop in the hole and join up play alongside Ade) but with 2 goal scorers on the pitch and having 2 men in the box every time we attack and the wingers bombing on we look much more treating, and its so much better to watch compared to the other stuff we've been serving up at home so far this year. Fans seemed to enjoy it more aswell.

Ade plays so deep that whoever plays alongside him should certainly not be playing in the whole. Ade Spends more time out of the box than inside the box. If we play 2 up front one of them needs to be in the box and I think that is one thing Defoe does well.

 

[braineclipse]

Anyone watching tonight will clearly see that 2 upfront works far better at WHL.. We were bright, dynamic and it was so much better to watch. Defoe and Ade might not be the ideal 2 right now (i'd prefer someone who could drop in the hole and join up play alongside Ade) but with 2 goal scorers on the pitch and having 2 men in the box every time we attack and the wingers bombing on we look much more treating, and its so much better to watch compared to the other stuff we've been serving up at home so far this year. Fans seemed to enjoy it more aswell.

We didnt try to over play it at the back and we got the ball to the wingers quickly. Well done to AVB for seeing the light, even if it took you 7 home games to work that one out.

Thought tom Carroll was great tonight, thought he should have come on at the weekend instead of Siguardsson.

You are severely short selling our manager and/or overstating your own knowledge of the game.

This was Ade's first start for us this season. He's barely been fit and available for matches for us to play him alongside Defoe previously.

Also, just one game against fairly poor opposition. Had we played Sig or Dempsey ahead of Defoe and still played well and won would that have proven that there's no need for 4-4-2 with Ade and Defoe together? No, it wouldn't. Just like this doesn't prove that a 4-2-3-1 (yes, the difference is a small one) isn't useless at home.

 

[Modric THFC]

Anyone watching tonight will clearly see that 2 upfront works far better at WHL.. We were bright, dynamic and it was so much better to watch. Defoe and Ade might not be the ideal 2 right now (i'd prefer someone who could drop in the hole and join up play alongside Ade) but with 2 goal scorers on the pitch and having 2 men in the box every time we attack and the wingers bombing on we look much more treating, and its so much better to watch compared to the other stuff we've been serving up at home so far this year. Fans seemed to enjoy it more aswell.

We didnt try to over play it at the back and we got the ball to the wingers quickly. Well done to AVB for seeing the light, even if it took you 7 home games to work that one out.

Thought tom Carroll was great tonight, thought he should have come on at the weekend instead of Siguardsson.

This is the 5th time he's played 442 this season. Consider Adebayor has only played 6 games. He even played Kane and Defoe upfront away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine first game of the season ffs!

 

[braineclipse]

This is the 5th time he's played 442 this season. Consider Adebayor has only played 6 games. He even played Kane and Defoe upfront away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine first game of the season ffs!

Now now, let's not get facts in the way of trying to make our own manager look bad.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

It's funny, 4-4-2 clearly did work a lot better last night. But 4-4-2 also saw us have some pretty brick performances like Stoke at home, Wolves at home last year. In a way AVB by trying to make us play a more interchangable, flexible formation is guarding us against becoming how we did in a lot of games last season, which was predictable and easy to shut down as long as teams sat deep and denied the space to our wingers. In response we didn't have the intelligence to break them down another way, and that's what cost us. Not just in the home games, but QPR away, Villa way, Arsenal away (albeit for different reasons), Everton away, and many more. Also, by playing such a rigid formation, if we lose one of the wingers, we are then back into shunting players to play out wide that don't contribute to the counter attacking, pacey play any way. In a way it's much better to try to learn to play a more flexible way, and the only way to do that will be to give the players experience in competitive games until it clicks.

The 'passing it around the back too much' is just an attempt to play with more intelligence. Obviously we aren't doing it for no reason, and my guess is that by the defence holding on to the ball a bit longer, it allows the players in front to take up more intelligent positions and to find space in deep defences, rather than simply try and break into a counter attacking space whenever they can. So it can work, it just seems like that transition from getting the ball out of defence into the midfield positions in an effective way hasn't totally clicked yet, but it doesn't mean it never will. I'm sure AVB is convinced we can do it, even with Defoe as the lone striker and even without Dembele for example.

It just seems like Harry's adage remained true. It's about the players, and ultimately I think if everyone is fit our first choice team is suited to 4-4-2. It's what we are suited too, and it's what we know. It just becomes a problem if teams sit deep and we don't have another way of picking them apart. And if Bale or Lennon get injured then we need to be able to go to a 4-3-3 variant where we can play at a slower tempo and use a variety of players out wide in the wider positions that can utilise their intelligence and find space. It clearly hasn't clicked with the players yet, but it doesn't mean it can't ever. The idea of making us play with more considered intelligence is admirable, and we will be better for it in the long run if we can make it click. We just may have to put up with a few more Norwich/Wigan type displays at home in the meantime, because that's when the space is at a premium and that's when teams won't mind sitting deep.

 

[milo]

It's funny, 4-4-2 clearly did work a lot better last night. But 4-4-2 also saw us have some pretty brick performances like Stoke at home, Wolves at home last year.In a way AVB by trying to make us play a more interchangable, flexible formation is guarding us against becoming how we did in a lot of games last season, which was predictable and easy to shut down as long as teams sat deep and denied the space to our wingers. In response we didn't have the intelligence to break them down another way, and that's what cost us. Not just in the home games, but QPR away, Villa way, Arsenal away (albeit for different reasons), Everton away, and many more. Also, by playing such a rigid formation, if we lose one of the wingers, we are then back into shunting players to play out wide that don't contribute to the counter attacking, pacey play any way. In a way it's much better to try to learn to play a more flexible way, and the only way to do that will be to give the players experience in competitive games until it clicks.

The 'passing it around the back too much' is just an attempt to play with more intelligence. Obviously we aren't doing it for no reason, and my guess is that by the defence holding on to the ball a bit longer, it allows the players in front to take up more intelligent positions and to find space in deep defences, rather than simply try and break into a counter attacking space whenever they can. So it can work, it just seems like that transition from getting the ball out of defence into the midfield positions in an effective way hasn't totally clicked yet, but it doesn't mean it never will. I'm sure AVB is convinced we can do it, even with Defoe as the lone striker and even without Dembele for example.

It just seems like Harry's adage remained true. It's about the players, and ultimately I think if everyone is fit our first choice team is suited to 4-4-2. It's what we are suited too, and it's what we know. It just becomes a problem if teams sit deep and we don't have another way of picking them apart. And if Bale or Lennon get injured then we need to be able to go to a 4-3-3 variant where we can play at a slower tempo and use a variety of players out wide in the wider positions that can utilise their intelligence and find space. It clearly hasn't clicked with the players yet, but it doesn't mean it can't ever. The idea of making us play with more considered intelligence is admirable, and we will be better for it in the long run if we can make it click. We just may have to put up with a few more Norwich/Wigan type displays at home in the meantime, because that's when the space is at a premium and that's when teams won't mind sitting deep.

In the first half of last season when both Lennon and Bale were fit and on form breaking down teams was not a probably and we were playing some of the most open, flexible, attractive, attacking football in Europe.

In the second half of last season we became a lot more predictable and easy to shut out but this was because Lennon was out so we were very one sided, playing VdV on the right as cover did not work and meant that he got dragged into parts of the field where he was ineffective and Bale's form nose dived (in part due to the first two points).

 

[BrainOfLevy]

In the first half of last season when both Lennon and Bale were fit and on form breaking down teams was not a probably and we were playing some of the most open, flexible, attractive, attacking football in Europe.

In the second half of last season we became a lot more predictable and easy to shut out but this was because Lennon was out so we were very one sided, playing VdV on the right as cover did not work and meant that he got dragged into parts of the field where he was ineffective and Bale's form nose dived (in part due to the first two points).

Which kind of led me on to the second point about needing to know how to play a more flexible formation so we weren't over-reliant on Lennon or Bale remaining fit for every game. If you shunt a playmaker like Rafa out wide (or this season Falque for example) they will be less effective when we are still trying to play a pacey counter attacking game. In a more flexible formation, those type of players can contribute well also in a slower tempo in a 4-3-3 variant.

 

[onlyme]

I liked Carrol - I wouldnt play him in the big games just yet but panathanaikos etc.

He did more than Sig has done in his entire career at spurs thus far

Sigg has scored and also set up Lennon for a goal/assist? with a perfect through ball..can't remember the game.

 

[DHSF]

Sigg has scored and also set up Lennon for a goal/assist? with a prefect through ball..can't remember the game.

I know that but has done nothing other than those two. Carrol was prominent in that game even at his young age and inexperience

 

[Rossi22]

This is the 5th time he's played 442 this season. Consider Adebayor has only played 6 games. He even played Kane and Defoe upfront away to Saudi Sportswashing Machine first game of the season ffs!

For 5 minutes.