AVB Press Conference

[yiddo2786]

Did Harry deserve sacking for 2 wins in 9?

 

[jimmyb]

What was it? 4 wins in 14? Regardless of that, context needs to be applied. Chelsea IMO had the best team last year, and certainly had one of the top two teams. Whilst I think Chelsea's sacking of AVB was premature (a Manager deserves at least 3 years, and if he proves himself in those 3 years deserves a couple more at least - something we haven't followed ourselves for years sadly) let's not try and be revisionist and say that being 5th whilst being sack was acceptable. Being 5th and that far off the title pace with arguably the best side in the Premiership isn't exactly something to crow about.

I'm concerned about AVB's appointment and I'll freely admit it. I'll give him every chance and certainly won't be on his back for the first season at least (unless its an absolute disaster, e.g. we're less than 5 points off of the bottom 3 by Xmas) but I have to admit, this blind faith being shown in him already is somewhat nauseating. Especially considering much of it is coming from posters so hungry to get rid of the last Manager. I genuinely hope they got what they wished for. Because if they didn't, we're all going to suffer.

Chelsea didn't have anything like the best squad last year.

But, yes, 5th and way off the title pace was definitely below par. No one denies that.

But the point is that the reason for them being 5th and way off the title pace is that AVB was given a very specific brief to radically overhaul both the squad and the playing style. That kind of fundamental change doesn't come without a cost.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

Chelsea didn't have anything like the best squad last year.

But, yes, 5th and way off the title pace was definitely below par. No one denies that.

But the point is that the reason for them being 5th and way off the title pace is that AVB was given a very specific brief to radically overhaul both the squad and the playing style. That kind of fundamental change doesn't come without a cost.

I said during the course of the season, even when AVB was there, that I was stunned how far behind they were. That Chelsea team is, still, rammed full of quality. Not sure RDM is the man to do it, but with the right Manager I believe that as things currently stand Chelsea are City's biggest threat to this years title.

EDIT : Also I don't subscribe to the AVB was given a Chelsea task of changing their culture etc etc. I think that is an excuse.

 

[jimmyb]

I said during the course of the season, even when AVB was there, that I was stunned how far behind they were. That Chelsea team is, still, rammed full of quality. Not sure RDM is the man to do it, but with the right Manager I believe that as things currently stand Chelsea are City's biggest threat to this years title.

EDIT : Also I don't subscribe to the AVB was given a Chelsea task of changing their culture etc etc. I think that is an excuse.

This is precisely the point. AVB was the wrong manager for the job - especially considering the radical brief he was tasked with.

As to your EDIT, yes, it's an excuse. But the point is that it's a legitimate excuse.

 

[Spursalot]

This is precisely the point. AVB was the wrong manager for the job - especially considering the radical brief he was tasked with.

As to your EDIT, yes, it's an excuse. But the point is that it's a legitimate excuse.

It's Chelsea. There is no right manager for the job.

 

[Robspur12]

What was it? 4 wins in 14? Regardless of that, context needs to be applied. Chelsea IMO had the best team last year, and certainly had one of the top two teams. Whilst I think Chelsea's sacking of AVB was premature (a Manager deserves at least 3 years, and if he proves himself in those 3 years deserves a couple more at least - something we haven't followed ourselves for years sadly) let's not try and be revisionist and say that being 5th whilst being sack was acceptable. Being 5th and that far off the title pace with arguably the best side in the Premiership isn't exactly something to crow about.

I'm concerned about AVB's appointment and I'll freely admit it. I'll give him every chance and certainly won't be on his back for the first season at least (unless its an absolute disaster, e.g. we're less than 5 points off of the bottom 3 by Xmas) but I have to admit, this blind faith being shown in him already is somewhat nauseating. Especially considering much of it is coming from posters so hungry to get rid of the last Manager. I genuinely hope they got what they wished for. Because if they didn't, we're all going to suffer.

MK I think you're concerned because you are a very logical poster and his appointment would defy conventional logic based on the previous post. Other posters seem to have seemed to have convinced themselves that Chelsea does not matter. I find it hard to do that myself as a scientist the evidence does not favour AVB. Then again this is football and logic doesn't seem to be always be in there. For example who would have logically predicted a manager who was sacked by westbrom would win the Champions League. I never thought at the start of last season Norwich would stay up. I accept AVB because he is Levy's man and I trust DL's judgement. I am fully supportive but accept that this is a massive gamble and hope fansgive AVB a chance.

By the way Golfball's use of the term "departed" was completely out of order and showed a lack of understanding of the meaning of the word.

 

[The Moonlit Knight]

MK I think you're concerned because you are a very logical poster and his appointment would defy conventional logic based on the previous post. Other posters seem to have seemed to have convinced themselves that Chelsea does not matter. I find it hard to do that myself as a scientist the evidence does not favour AVB. Then again this is football and logic doesn't seem to be always be in there. For example who would have logically predicted a manager who was sacked by westbrom would win the Champions League. I never thought at the start of last season Norwich would stay up. I accept AVB because he is Levy's man and I trust DL's judgement. I am fully supportive but accept that this is a massive gamble and hope fansgive AVB a chance.

By the way Golfball's use of the term "departed" was completely out of order and showed a lack of understanding of the meaning of the word.

I don't, and that is also a probem for me. Jol & Redknapp are by far the two most successful Managers under Levy. Both were discarded at the first sign of poor form. I don't believe for one minute that either were long term plans in Levy's mind (and that is the reason he was probably so keen to get rid of them both), Jol especially. Levy's choices have been Hoddle (undermined by Levy's best bud Pleat), Santini and Ramos. Redknapp was brought in to do a job but the word is that he wasn't so much Levy's man as other members on the board wanting him in after the Ramos fiasco.

For me AVB is a risk. And also for me it's Levy last chance saloon. Levy's been at the club 11 years now. It's time he stood up and backed a Manager. I hope when AVB's Spurs goes through a slump (and it will do, it happens to all teams regardless of the Manager and sometimes that slump can last over a season) this time Levy has the courage to actually stand by his man.

 

[Leeds Spur]

Problem? I can justify that comment with ease.

The fact Harry has haters is departed in itself. The job he did for us compared to what others have done. Even if you thought it was time for a change, there is no reason to hate the man.

But the behaviour and comments of these people on this forum is something else. Lies, twisted truths and complete irrationality is all I have read from this group of people. So, I see no reason why I can't label these people as departs.

And for people who thought Harry did ok but wanted a change, you are not who I am talking about.

Cool....that'll be me.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I actually think AVB did the correct thing when he first got to Chelsea. They had and still do have a number of older players that needed to be moved on. However, he went about it in completely the wrong way. Goes without saying Chelsea have a lot of big egos and personalities in their squad who wield a lot of power and are obviously very chummy with their daddy Abramovich, but AVB clearly alienated the likes of Lampard, Cole, Anelka and Alex when they still could have at least made a contribution.

I don't think Chelsea had the best team in the league, Emirates Marketing Project comfortably had the best squad, but Chelsea with their players should have been comfortably in the top 4.

Luckily for us, we don't have any ****s in our squad who are as difficult to manage. It definitely seems like our players are willing to give him a chance judging by Bale's decision to sign a new contract. But I am still worried that he might make the same mistakes with regards to dealing with the players that he made at Chelsea. I don't doubt his tactical nous or knowledge and understanding of the game.

 

[jimmyb]

I don't, and that is also a probem for me. Jol & Redknapp are by far the two most successful Managers under Levy. Both were discarded at the first sign of poor form. I don't believe for one minute that either were long term plans in Levy's mind (and that is the reason he was probably so keen to get rid of them both), Jol especially. Levy's choices have been Hoddle (undermined by Levy's best bud Pleat), Santini and Ramos. Redknapp was brought in to do a job but the word is that he wasn't so much Levy's man as other members on the board wanting him in after the Ramos fiasco.

Jol was Arnesen's choice. And I think Levy trusted his judgement absolutely. But I also believe that he feared that appointing Jol as manager (after foisting caretaker Pleat on an angry fan base for three quarters of the previous season) would have been met with outrage, if not outright rebellion by the fans. So, between him and Arnesen (and possibly with the collusion of Santini), they concocted a plan to ease Jol into the job by default.

As to Jol's sacking, by all accounts, Levy was the one who fought BMJ's corner in the boardroom. The other board members wanted rid.

And as to Harry, his sacking was because of the way he went about things rather than results on the pitch. Ultimately, senior people within any company have to be able to work together. They have to sing from the same hymn sheet. If they prove to be incompatible, then it is only a matter of time before there is a parting of the ways.

 

[thfcsteff]

I realise that. It was for my benefit!

...I'm with you both :lol:

 

[thfcsteff]

Hope you're right, because AVB used to contradict himself in the media a lot.

But did he really MLK?

Mate, I wrote on here a couple of weeks ago that it was clearly obvious what happened to him at Chelski, that he had been given a mandate from above, and that while executing that mandate (not, I would agree, with the degree of nous necessary to smooth the bumps) he was ditched at the altar and left with his dingdong in his hand under a gleaming spotlight for one. He was fudged over. Towards the end of his time there I felt sorry for the man but was delighted because it was them!!!!

I can tell you categorically that I was happy he came out and explained what he felt happened to him at Chelski, because it won't happen here. And yes, you can quote me on that.

BTW, and this is not at you mate, but if anyone want a discussion of the Ramos reign, let's start a thread. He changed more things at our club fundamentally than anyone could know. The fact he lost 51 millions pounds, and 43-odd goals, in one summer AND suffered a personal crisis which caused his departure to become a reality always seems to be curiously looked over. More than met the eye to that tenure...I will also say I heard that AVB interviewed a few candidates for coach and that Freund was apparently HIS choice!

It's funny to see some people unable to give AVB unconditional support...

 

[thfcsteff]

Timeframes are unimportant and a bit of a red herring, IMO.

AVB hasn't made any predictions. That would have been foolish and, for those who are prone to it, embarrassing.

He's simply stated that winning the title should be our aim. It's a mindset that he's trying to get into the players; into the fans; into the very fabric of the club itself. It's something that we've lacked for far too long. As such, he's not specifically talking about this season, next season or the season after. He's talking about what a club like ours should be aiming for every season.

A man after Billy Nick's heart.

Thank you I had just written a four paragraph response to MLK, but decided against posting it as this is an AVB thread and I'm sick of repeating the same old brick, really tired of it. You're right. AVB has the fortitude of young Sir Bill it would appear...

 

[thfcsteff]

I see what you are saying, but how many managers can say "if i had got the players i would have done well" (all of them?) ... it doesnt always go to plan and you have to adapt. AVB had a massively talented squad and made a mess of it, not the thing id look for in a manager that has only had 1 previous job in the PL. He had time in the summer to get some players and he did. I know one failure doesnt mean you will fail again, but AVB is a lucky guy considering most managers that performed like he did never had another job again.

If it goes completely wrong, a lot of people will look at us and say "what did you expect ?" Very rare a manager who gets sacked for such poor performances gets another job at a team that finished higher.

And jimmyb - it was a perfect way of making my point. My point was that I find the decision to sack Harry and replace with AVB as a little strange, but I wont be acting like a depart and blaming AVB for everything that happens or use 1 bad thing against him if he has done 100 good things.

Would you at least admit that in order to comprehend either set of circumstances, you would have to apply both some thought and rationale into the context behind these situations and actions? Would you at least admit that beyond the cold nudity of a printed word, there sits detail, actions and thus context that could quite possibly change your perception? Would you at least admit that you are taking both the above bold-faced pieces "at face value" and not seeking even a millimeter's depth behind them?

 

[skyfarer]

I like our new aim. After aiming for only top 4 for the last 20 years or so, it is good to know we are aiming for league title now. It doesn't matter if we are capable of winning it or not. The important thing is we should try to win it. We should change our mentality from a top 4 team to a team who are challenging for the league title.

Now you can see why Levy removed Redknapp. Don't think Redknapp ever talked about going for league title. His aim was always finishing in 4th. Hopefully AVB will bring us to that next level. Even if we fail under AVB, we can always be proud of the fact we did try. Well done Levy !

Harry talks about winning the league when it's going well (see - middle of last season). He starts making excuses when our form starts dropping. Basically he spouts whatever the feeling of the day is.

When we judge a team's performance, I think it's important to have a "dream", but it's also fair to have "a level of reasonable expectations" (a finishing place we will not be disappointed with); that way, we know where we want to go but we don't boo the team and sack the manager if we haven't gotten there as quickly as we'd wanted. That's like asking a kid who's only started running last year to beat kids twice his age who've been taking running classes from world-class coaches for years. We can't demand that a Wigan target first place with all else failure, even though every single team should enter every single game determined to win.

We should go into the season determined to take the title, but we can't say that if we fail to win it all then AVB was a miserable failure. The only thing I ask is that everyone gives it their all....there'll be times when we'll be outplayed, but I don't ever want to see us outfought. Where we finish given that hunger is, to some extent, a matter of fortune and fate.

 

[SPURS]

It's Chelsea. There is no right manager for the job.

The only manager right for the Chelsea job is Mourinho. Never have a club, it's fans and a manager fitted like a glove as much. All cnuts together!! Vile.

 

[indianspur]

 

[ArcspacE]

Would

 

[BrainOfLevy]

But did he really MLK?

Mate, I wrote on here a couple of weeks ago that it was clearly obvious what happened to him at Chelski, that he had been given a mandate from above, and that while executing that mandate (not, I would agree, with the degree of nous necessary to smooth the bumps) he was ditched at the altar and left with his dingdong in his hand under a gleaming spotlight for one. He was fudged over. Towards the end of his time there I felt sorry for the man but was delighted because it was them!!!!

I can tell you categorically that I was happy he came out and explained what he felt happened to him at Chelski, because it won't happen here. And yes, you can quote me on that.

BTW, and this is not at you mate, but if anyone want a discussion of the Ramos reign, let's start a thread. He changed more things at our club fundamentally than anyone could know. The fact he lost 51 millions pounds, and 43-odd goals, in one summer AND suffered a personal crisis which caused his departure to become a reality always seems to be curiously looked over. More than met the eye to that tenure...I will also say I heard that AVB interviewed a few candidates for coach and that Freund was apparently HIS choice!

It's funny to see some people unable to give AVB unconditional support...

I know this is an AVB thread, but it sort of does tie into the fact that circumstances need to be right for a manager to succeed...I'd be very interested to know what fundementals Ramos changed at the club. Was it anything beyond the health side? And what was his personal crisis? Divorce or something? Was he not at training as much as he could be? PM me it can't be public...I'd just be really interested as it's a great example of someone that had a good record, having things not go his way and ultimately be looked upon as a failure even though he had good ideas.

 

[Rorschach]

I know this is an AVB thread, but it sort of does tie into the fact that circumstances need to be right for a manager to succeed...I'd be very interested to know what fundementals Ramos changed at the club. Was it anything beyond the health side? And what was his personal crisis? Divorce or something? Was he not at training as much as he could be? PM me it can't be public...I'd just be really interested as it's a great example of someone that had a good record, having things not go his way and ultimately be looked upon as a failure even though he had good ideas.

PM me too please. I'm very nosey.