Are you happy with our performances this season?

[glorygloryeze]

I will absolutely answer this in detail a little later. Happy to discuss this with you indeed. It does deserve some analysis so I will be onto it later...

 

[a spur from swansea]

It's not with hindsight though, every Spurs fan at the game and every Spurs fan at home thought "WTF" at the time, we were all over them and that sub killed all momentum in an instant. Harry made bad decision after bad decision too, infact he did it two years running, at the very same stage of the season both times, AVB gets leveled with the "doesn't learn from his mistakes" card, but Harry didn't either. That team should have finished 3rd, it was stronger than RVP FC but Harry took his eye off the ball and for that we are now paying the price. Our special players have left and AVB is taking the blame for it, Spurs fans want and expect top 4 but with a poorer squad. We're in the rebuilding phase, the quicker people get that the better, ofcourse losing to Wigan at home is absolutely tinkle poor but I seem to remember us losing 1-0 at home to them under Saint Harold too.

Under saint harold we did beat them 9-1 didn't we.....at the moment 9-1 is an AVB formation.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Under saint harold we did beat them 9-1 didn't we.....at the moment 9-1 is an AVB formation.

We can keep playing this game I like it!

Under 'Saint; Harold we lost 5-2 against Man Utd at Old Trafford after being 2-0 up at half-time...

 

[a spur from swansea]

......beat the goons 3-2 after being 2-1 down,winning for the first time in years .......30-15 lol.

 

[glorygloryeze]

......beat the goons 3-2 after being 2-1 down,winning for the first time in years .......30-15 lol.

..yeah, then losing 5-2 after aking a 2-0 lead....biggest flop in a NLD for GHod knows how long....I'm not going to talk about blowing a 10-point lead in 3rd....

 

[Jurgen the German]

I have to wonder...I think most of the regular attendees, especially those who go away, got it and got it for quite a while, but I am genuinely not sure the casuals got it at all. In fact I am convinced there is still a massive massive lack of reality regarding that whole situation. It's funny when I read about AVB and cluelessness,etc, because there were games under Harry where that cluelessness which is spoken of was absolutely blinding and beggaring beyond belief! Villa away immediately springs to mind...

The big difference is, even the most staunch Redknapp supporters (and I include myself in that number) will admit that Harry had his faults, especially when it came to tactics and substitutions. But I honestly thought AVB was supposed to be a master tactician. His subs have been appalling for the most part so far! When it comes to set pieces, we are as bad at them as we ever were under Redknapp.

Were far too negative also. He doesn't seem to realise that Spurs have always been known for attacking. We don't do holding on to leads! Which surprises me because I thought he was a student of the game. And I'm sick of playing 1 up front against the lesser teams at home! He seems too stubborn to change to a 4-4-2. Even Harry who was labelled as a dinosaur mixed the formation up every now and then.

I will cut him some big slack in the sense that he's lost some key players. And we honestly don't know if HE was the one who wanted rid of VDV, looks like an incredibly stupid decision now doesn't it?!

 

[a spur from swansea]

..yeah, then losing 5-2 after aking a 2-0 lead....biggest flop in a NLD for GHod knows how long....I'm not going to talk about blowing a 10-point lead in 3rd....

yeah i know,but wht a run we had of victories from sept 10th to that game...didnt the goons have two games in hand when we had that 10 point lead.

if we don't finish above the goons this season it will be a waste and if we finish behind everton,jesus that be a bleeding disgrace.

 

[glorygloryeze]

yeah i know,but wht a run we had of victories from sept 10th to that game...didnt the goons have two games in hand when we had that 10 point lead.

if we don't finish above the goons this season it will be a waste and if we finish behind everton,jesus that be a bleeding disgrace.

No we were 10 points clear when we had that awat 0-0 draw with Liverpool. If we'd won at the Emirates we would ahve gone THIRTEEN points clear. It was waste finishing behind the goons last season; we are paying the proce now. Finishing behind Everton this season wont be a disgrace imv; they have started well and will be in the mix for the top 4 imo

We indeed need to buck up our ideas though

 

[Dr Rosenrosen]

If I recall correctly, those that championed AVB said it was all about the team effort (high tempo, fast pressing, quick passing) and that individual players wouldnt make so much diffence.

Well I just cant see that at the moment. I know we have several class players out, but I still cant even notice the semblance of a team performance. Not even in little triangles - Walker, Sandro, Lennon or Verts, Hudd, Bale. We are just all so many strangers at present with no running off the ball at all.

I agree with this, parficularly the last bit. I admittedly am no great football tactician, but I can't see what the players are trying to do. Of course other teams deserve credit and Spurs aren't playing against static training cones. But at least it should be somewhat apparent what they are meant to be doing.

I can't see how the team has improved in any aspect of play. Even with starters missing, all players attend the same training, the same.video and tactics sessions, etc. I would expect to see some consistency in approach if not in skill or execution or results. Like Pirate says, I would hope to see some passing triangles, some movement by strikers off the ball, dummy balls, short corners, trick plays on set pieces, one-touch passes - something that shows the players are working together on things in training.

They look like the England national side - a collection of individuals rather than a cohesive unit of interchangeable units in a system. No better to these eyes than "get out there and run around a bit."

 

[Mulletperm]

I agree with this, parficularly the last bit. I admittedly am no great football tactician, but I can't see what the players are trying to do. Of course other teams deserve credit and Spurs aren't playing against static training cones. But at least it should be somewhat apparent what they are meant to be doing.

I can't see how the team has improved in any aspect of play. Even with starters missing, all players attend the same training, the same.video and tactics sessions, etc. I would expect to see some consistency in approach if not in skill or execution or results. Like Pirate says, I would hope to see some passing triangles, some movement by strikers off the ball, dummy balls, short corners, trick plays on set pieces, one-touch passes - something that shows the players are working together on things in training.

They look like the England national side - a collection of individuals rather than a cohesive unit of interchangeable units in a system. No better to these eyes than "get out there and run around a bit."

Good analogy actually

 

[thfcsteff]

Out of interest, which aspects please you greatly ?

Giving him a season is not related to calling it how you see it now. I think performances have generally been brick, absolutely terrible, but I would like to give him a season if he can keep the same points per game ratio up.

And come on, "unlike his predecessor"... compare where we were when Harry took over compared to AVB, now THAT is the most bizarre statement out of all our accusations of bizarreness!!

Daglish described AVB as the luckiest manager ever when he joined Spurs, even with the loss of Modric he said what a brilliant job it was given the squad. And I use this Daglish example as he is someone who you suggested doesnt comment like Harry does in the press.

Aspects which have pleased me greatly are the way in which he has brought some order and structure to our play. Bale in particular has benefitted from now knowing WHEN to move inside and switch flanks versus last season when often, he quite simply went walkies whenever it suited him (interestingly, yesterday was one of the first times I have seen Bale go walkies this season, doubtless in desperation!)...when we have a fully-fit side, I have enjoyed the fact we try to play it on the floor more/move quickly and swiftly on the counter. I no longer feel we are as defensively vulnerable. We don't hemorrhage goals, in fact as I sot here now I cannot remember us getting a multi-goal tonking (I suppose being churlish you could count Chelski but it was 2 goal margin which was established in the 93rd min). And I feel the way in which he has undergone dealing with the departures/retirements of Modric, King and VdV has been really good (it would've been excellent had he got Moutinho, the player he really wanted). He has given players such as Caulker, Townshend and Carroll some good look ins, which I am personally delighted by. Finally, he has dealt with an injury/mental injury list that has robbed us of the following for long stretches of the season:
Kaboul
Parker
Dembele
Ekotto
Adebayor
We are currently joint 4th having lost 3 games all season. It's not always been pretty, but we're hanging in there.

Onto your 'where we were when Redknapp took over'...let us...Harry walked into a squad containing Luka Modric, Aaron Lennon, Darren Bent, Jonathon Woodgate, Gareth Bale, Benoit Assou Ekotto, Ledley King and the usual suspects. He did what he was asked to do, used his great motivational powers, and got the stars cracking on and producing the goods.

AVB took over a squad of similar proportions with regards to talent, but significantly, two of the main thoroughfare through which our play flowed the last couple of years were gone in Modric and VdV. I accept that VdV would not have been a principle anyway but the loss of Modric is massive and something Harry didn't have to deal with (save the 3 months out with injury in Harry's first full season). Your Dalglish comment is only partially accurate. What he went on to say was that he did not really know how significant losing Modric would be for Spurs (bizarre in that he never figured out how to stop him when scourers manager) and that 'they will need to replace him.' Thus why I have harped on about Moutinho for a long -time.

In short, since last season, AVB has largely been doing without the following players who were integral to not just last season, but Harry's time.
Modric, VdV, Adebayor, King, Parker, Ekotto, Kaboul, Dembele. You can take out Dembele if you want, but which ever way you do it, that's a core of talent that any manager would be hard pressed to do well without. And without last year's swashbuckling style, he has managed to retain some consistent form and function so as at least with all the changes going on, he isn't confusing players by changing things every 5 minutes.

I'll visit this thread again tomm when not knackered...

 

[DHSF]

I dont think the performances have been good at all and yesterdays performance was really as bad as I have seen. Where we have lost in the past I took the result on the chin because at least I saw we created chances and gave it a go. Yesterday was just tragic to say the least. i blame the players as much as AVB the same way that I also blamed the players in previous regime - players are not immune and the Manager isnt ALWAYS 100% responsible. A Manager can only be as good as the players at his disposal which brings me on to my main point.

Last season you had members on here (cant remember who) who said that Levy would back the new Manager a Manager he can trust etc. So we bring in AVB. However we also know that our squad has serious deficiencies and is actually, lets be honest, of poorer quality. So did Levy back AVB by bringing in players that AVB wanted such as Dempsey and Sig - if thats the case then AVB has no excuses. If Levy didnt and brought in the likes of Dempsey and Sig who AVB didnt want - then wheres the backing?

I keep on bringing up Dempsey and Sig simply because when we, as a club, have financial constraints we cannot afford to spend 14m on players that in all seriousness seem not to fit the system and this hinders AVB in two ways. firstly his team selection and secondly his ability in future windows to spend cash on players HE WANTS.

There is another side too which are the tactics and AVBs stubbornness. The guy needs to have realised by now the home performance issue. He needs to have realised that this 4231 IS NOT working at home. Not only do we need to be less defensive and more offensive but need to start playing with 11 players and not 10 or 9. By that I mean fudgein play two up front. Stop playing two defensive midfielders. If we are worried about how Wigan are going to play moreso than actually letting Wigan think about how WE play then im sorry but thats a fudgein disgrace. This is Wigan (i like Wigan and love Martinez and wanted him as my first choice Manager) BUT we should NOT be worrying and shaping our tactics to how they will play especially at home.

Someone mentioned that the blame has to be laid on all stakeholders so to speak - Levy, AVB, Players etc and they were right.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Aspects which have pleased me greatly are the way in which he has brought some order and structure to our play. Bale in particular has benefitted from now knowing WHEN to move inside and switch flanks versus last season when often, he quite simply went walkies whenever it suited him (interestingly, yesterday was one of the first times I have seen Bale go walkies this season, doubtless in desperation!)...when we have a fully-fit side, I have enjoyed the fact we try to play it on the floor more/move quickly and swiftly on the counter. I no longer feel we are as defensively vulnerable. We don't hemorrhage goals, in fact as I sot here now I cannot remember us getting a multi-goal tonking (I suppose being churlish you could count Chelski but it was 2 goal margin which was established in the 93rd min). And I feel the way in which he has undergone dealing with the departures/retirements of Modric, King and VdV has been really good (it would've been excellent had he got Moutinho, the player he really wanted). He has given players such as Caulker, Townshend and Carroll some good look ins, which I am personally delighted by. Finally, he has dealt with an injury/mental injury list that has robbed us of the following for long stretches of the season:
Kaboul
Parker
Dembele
Ekotto
Adebayor
We are currently joint 4th having lost 3 games all season. It's not always been pretty, but we're hanging in there.

Onto your 'where we were when Redknapp took over'...let us...Harry walked into a squad containing Luka Modric, Aaron Lennon, Darren Bent, Jonathon Woodgate, Gareth Bale, Benoit Assou Ekotto, Ledley King and the usual suspects. He did what he was asked to do, used his great motivational powers, and got the stars cracking on and producing the goods.

AVB took over a squad of similar proportions with regards to talent, but significantly, two of the main thoroughfare through which our play flowed the last couple of years were gone in Modric and VdV. I accept that VdV would not have been a principle anyway but the loss of Modric is massive and something Harry didn't have to deal with (save the 3 months out with injury in Harry's first full season). Your Dalglish comment is only partially accurate. What he went on to say was that he did not really know how significant losing Modric would be for Spurs (bizarre in that he never figured out how to stop him when scourers manager) and that 'they will need to replace him.' Thus why I have harped on about Moutinho for a long -time.

In short, since last season, AVB has largely been doing without the following players who were integral to not just last season, but Harry's time.
Modric, VdV, Adebayor, King, Parker, Ekotto, Kaboul, Dembele. You can take out Dembele if you want, but which ever way you do it, that's a core of talent that any manager would be hard pressed to do well without. And without last year's swashbuckling style, he has managed to retain some consistent form and function so as at least with all the changes going on, he isn't confusing players by changing things every 5 minutes.

I'll visit this thread again tomm when not knackered...

Well said

 

[indianspur]

im pretty sure we have failed to score in the first half of all our home games this season

West Brom, Norwich, Aston Villa, QPR, Chelsea and Wigan.....plus the Lazio game

shocking

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think we have to maybe remember that due to AVB taking all competitions relatively seriously and our injuries now piling up, perhaps most of the players yesterday were simply tired...?

 

[AdamB]

I dont think the performances have been good at all and yesterdays performance was really as bad as I have seen. Where we have lost in the past I took the result on the chin because at least I saw we created chances and gave it a go. Yesterday was just tragic to say the least. i blame the players as much as AVB the same way that I also blamed the players in previous regime - players are not immune and the Manager isnt ALWAYS 100% responsible. A Manager can only be as good as the players at his disposal which brings me on to my main point.

Last season you had members on here (cant remember who) who said that Levy would back the new Manager a Manager he can trust etc. So we bring in AVB. However we also know that our squad has serious deficiencies and is actually, lets be honest, of poorer quality. So did Levy back AVB by bringing in players that AVB wanted such as Dempsey and Sig - if thats the case then AVB has no excuses. If Levy didnt and brought in the likes of Dempsey and Sig who AVB didnt want - then wheres the backing?

I keep on bringing up Dempsey and Sig simply because when we, as a club, have financial constraints we cannot afford to spend 14m on players that in all seriousness seem not to fit the system and this hinders AVB in two ways. firstly his team selection and secondly his ability in future windows to spend cash on players HE WANTS.

There is another side too which are the tactics and AVBs stubbornness. The guy needs to have realised by now the home performance issue. He needs to have realised that this 4231 IS NOT working at home. Not only do we need to be less defensive and more offensive but need to start playing with 11 players and not 10 or 9. By that I mean fudgein play two up front. Stop playing two defensive midfielders. If we are worried about how Wigan are going to play moreso than actually letting Wigan think about how WE play then im sorry but thats a fudgein disgrace. This is Wigan (i like Wigan and love Martinez and wanted him as my first choice Manager) BUT we should NOT be worrying and shaping our tactics to how they will play especially at home.

Someone mentioned that the blame has to be laid on all stakeholders so to speak - Levy, AVB, Players etc and they were right.

The only reason 4-2-3-1 isnt working is due to Siggy and Demspey being a crock of brick so far this season and therefore we're effectively playing 4-2-2-1. The same reason is why we're completely toothless - with Lennon and Bale playing as proper wingers, there's a real gap of creativity in central reasons around the box. Dembele, when fit, brings creativity from deep but there's nothing in and around the centre forward.

Whats the solution? Options appear to me are:
1) move to 4-4-2
2) play someone else in that central position
3) move to AVB's preferred 4-3-3 / 4-5-1 formation
4) carry on as we are

However 1) isnt ever an option for AVB and our lack of CFs means we couldnt play it all the time, 2) isnt an option as there are no alternatives unless you want to move Bale inside or push Thudd forward, 3) isnt an option as it doesnt work unless one of your 3 CMs is someone who can get 15 goals per year.

I think that leaves us how we are, hoping that Sigurdsson or Dempsey will at some point discover some form and in the menatime, plan to get in a decent player for that key position in Jan (Willian?)

 

[AdamB]

I think we have to maybe remember that due to AVB taking all competitions relatively seriously and our injuries now piling up, perhaps most of the players yesterday were simply tired...?

Been saying this for ages. Our selections in the Europa will come back to haunt us. Vertonghan, Walker, Defoe and Lennon will be dead by Jan

 

[Rossi22]

Saudi Sportswashing Machine away 7/10
West Brom home 5/10
Norwich home 2/10
Reading away 8/10
QPR home 5/10
Man Utd away 8.5/10
Villa home 5.5/10
Chelsea home 5.5/10
Southampton away 6/10
Wigan ?/10 - Yesterday was the first home game I've missed this season and have yet to work up the courage to watch it on football first

So around a 5.5 average, not great.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Under saint harold we did beat them 9-1 didn't we.....at the moment 9-1 is an AVB formation.

I see you conveniently forget when Wigan came to the Lane and beat as just as they did yesterday, typical Spurs fan