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Antonio Conte - officially NOT the coach of THFC

harr1984 said:
Yeah agree that 5th-7th is absolutely where we should be. But there have been more and more noises with ‘Look what we can do with an actual top class manager’ which have been a bit OTT. Don’t get me wrong, moulding the squad as he wants we will be right up there. But right now with these players, we are nowhere near.

I know many talked as if the world was about to end with Nuno in charge, but if he was still here I don’t think things would be looking that different. Let’s not forget he managed us against City, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham away and still had us only a few points off of the top 4 - hence how Conte has been afforded such a nice position to come into fixture wise.

And don’t get me wrong under Nuno there was a couple of catastrophic performances but has the football really been that much better under Conte considering the constant complaints about Jose and Nunos style? Not really.

But just because it’s Conte, we have a few ten minutes spells of decent football and everyone gets excited. We had plenty of similar spells under both our previous coaches yet the reaction was very different. The only difference is under this manager who is more popular the fans are prepared to blame the players. Under the previous two coaches who didn’t have such popularity it was them who is the problem. Fact is it always was and always will be the players until we rebuild properly…..
Click to expand...

Agree largely with the post but the football has definitely improved dramatically under Conte. Have there been periods in games or halves when we have been lacklustre and ineffective? Of course, but we barely created a thing under Nuno and Jose was happy to sit on a 1-0 lead even when we had poor defenders. We create far more opportunities under Conte with the same personnel. We also cover more ground than the opposition, we were near the bottom of the table in just about every category including work rate under Nuno.

Do fully agree with the sentiment that the players aren’t good enough though. We need to upgrade on a lot of them quickly, like this month, not in the summer. We’ll see if Conte gets his way and we bring in some better players this month.
 
harr1984 said:
Yeah agree that 5th-7th is absolutely where we should be. But there have been more and more noises with ‘Look what we can do with an actual top class manager’ which have been a bit OTT. Don’t get me wrong, moulding the squad as he wants we will be right up there. But right now with these players, we are nowhere near.

I know many talked as if the world was about to end with Nuno in charge, but if he was still here I don’t think things would be looking that different. Let’s not forget he managed us against City, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal and West Ham away and still had us only a few points off of the top 4 - hence how Conte has been afforded such a nice position to come into fixture wise.

And don’t get me wrong under Nuno there was a couple of catastrophic performances but has the football really been that much better under Conte considering the constant complaints about Jose and Nunos style? Not really.

But just because it’s Conte, we have a few ten minutes spells of decent football and everyone gets excited. We had plenty of similar spells under both our previous coaches yet the reaction was very different. The only difference is under this manager who is more popular the fans are prepared to blame the players. Under the previous two coaches who didn’t have such popularity it was them who is the problem. Fact is it always was and always will be the players until we rebuild properly…..
Click to expand...

Very good post. However, I do think we've looked genuinely better under Conte than Nuno or Jose. Nothing against Nuno, I like the guy, but we looked a lower mid-table side at best under him. Under Conte, we look like close to the best of the rest. We're still miles off it though. That's because the squad lacking quality, depth and is badly unsuited to his football. At right back, centre back and centre midfield, we are badly lacking. This is where Levy needs to back Conte rather than relying on him to work miracles. No point getting Conte in if you don't back him.

I said it after 4-5 games that we weren't actually much better off under Conte than we were at the same stage under Jose and last week that the "unbeaten in 8 games" was just an anomaly of the fixture list (home games against relegation fodder) rather than his brilliance. I do believe he is the manager we thought we were getting with Jose, a top manager at the peak of his powers, but if we don't support him, he'll get us Europa League at best before it all goes inevitably south.
 
Haha Levy's Corp comms team must be scrambling now for some positive feel good news to release in the next 48 hours

Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
 
elltrev said:
It's not just about spending money though - we've also got to spend it well. (E.g. we've already spent £100m on Ndombele and Lo Celso, and that hasn't got us anywhere. In fact our overall net spend on transfer fees is already higher than City, Chelsea and Liverpool over the last 3 seasons, believe it or not).
Click to expand...
I'd say that teams tend to be put together over a 5 year period.... We are 6th biggest net spenders over the last 5 years (here are the top 10):

1. Man Utd: -£480m
2. Emirates Marketing Project: -£419m
3. Arsenal: £-333m
4. Everton: -£247m
5. Chelsea: -£240m
6. Spurs: -£207m
7. West Ham: -£197m
8. Aston Villa: -£194m
9. Wolves: -£187m
10. Brighton: -£186m

From the above it is clear to see that we obviously haven't spent money well as we have gone backwards compared to all 4 of the clubs appearing immediately below us in that list, despite them spending only a little less than us. It is also quite interesting that over this period our spending is very comparable to clubs who aren't really considered European qualifying clubs.

The other glaring anomaly is Liverpool who have only spent a net amount of £157m in that period, which is testament to them getting both buying and selling right and also having a great manager who has played the same sort of system year on year so money isn't being wasted on signings who don't fit the next manager's philosophy.

Slightly worryingly is the fact that we were only the 9th biggest spenders last summer:

1. Arsenal: -£121m
2. Man Utd: -£100m
3. Emirates Marketing Project: £-74m
4. Crystal Palace: -£66m
5. West Ham: -£64m
6. Leeds: -£55m
7. Leicester: -£49m
8. Brentford: -£34m
9. Tottenham: -£31m
10. Saudi Sportswashing Machine : -£26m

Being 9th biggest spenders after finishing 7th was never likely to see us do much climbing in the league, especially when considering that 3 of the clubs who were quite close to us on points in Arsenal, West Ham and Leicester all outspent us quite considerably.

Time will tell what the strategy of the owners will be in terms of transfer (and wage) spending. Personally I don't think it will be nearly enough to keep Conte here for long but time will tell and I'd love to be proved wrong.
 
With the addition of one possibly two attack-minded players, I think we can compete for CL places. We have hard-working grafters under Conte, which is what you need for the league plus some spark and creativity. Which is what we lack a little. We rely too much on Kane and Son. They need a break, and we need more attacking strings to our bow. Another forward, an attacking RB, and Sessessgon fit would revitalise this squad.
 
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Finney Is Back said:
I'd say that teams tend to be put together over a 5 year period.... We are 6th biggest net spenders over the last 5 years (here are the top 10):

1. Man Utd: -£480m
2. Emirates Marketing Project: -£419m
3. Arsenal: £-333m
4. Everton: -£247m
5. Chelsea: -£240m
6. Spurs: -£207m
7. West Ham: -£197m
8. Aston Villa: -£194m
9. Wolves: -£187m
10. Brighton: -£186m

From the above it is clear to see that we obviously haven't spent money well as we have gone backwards compared to all 4 of the clubs appearing immediately below us in that list, despite them spending only a little less than us. It is also quite interesting that over this period our spending is very comparable to clubs who aren't really considered European qualifying clubs.

The other glaring anomaly is Liverpool who have only spent a net amount of £157m in that period, which is testament to them getting both buying and selling right and also having a great manager who has played the same sort of system year on year so money isn't being wasted on signings who don't fit the next manager's philosophy.

Slightly worryingly is the fact that we were only the 9th biggest spenders last summer:

1. Arsenal: -£121m
2. Man Utd: -£100m
3. Emirates Marketing Project: £-74m
4. Crystal Palace: -£66m
5. West Ham: -£64m
6. Leeds: -£55m
7. Leicester: -£49m
8. Brentford: -£34m
9. Tottenham: -£31m
10. Saudi Sportswashing Machine : -£26m

Being 9th biggest spenders after finishing 7th was never likely to see us do much climbing in the league, especially when considering that 3 of the clubs who were quite close to us on points in Arsenal, West Ham and Leicester all outspent us quite considerably.

Time will tell what the strategy of the owners will be in terms of transfer (and wage) spending. Personally I don't think it will be nearly enough to keep Conte here for long but time will tell and I'd love to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...


Surely the fact that utd, arsenal and Everton are three of the top four in that first lists tells us just spending money isn't the answer.
Add in that utd and arsenal spent more than us in the summer, from a stronger squad base to boot, then the amount you spend is of little consequence, its how you spend it.
 
glasgowspur said:
Surely the fact that utd, arsenal and Everton are three of the top four in that first lists tells us just spending money isn't the answer.
Add in that utd and arsenal spent more than us in the summer, from a stronger squad base to boot, then the amount you spend is of little consequence, its how you spend it.
Click to expand...

Yep. Leicester have been poor this season. But have spent incredibly well the last few years (apart from wages). We should have nicked their dof the season after they won the league and had their fire sale.
 
elltrev said:
It's not just about spending money though - we've also got to spend it well. (E.g. we've already spent £100m on Ndombele and Lo Celso, and that hasn't got us anywhere. In fact our overall net spend on transfer fees is already higher than City, Chelsea and Liverpool over the last 3 seasons, believe it or not).
Click to expand...

tickle my balls with a feather, every transfer is a risk but we have made a few bad ones for sure. At the end of the day most transfers are a risk and ALL clubs have made what turned out to be bad ones.
 
Lilbaz said:
Yep. Leicester have been poor this season. But have spent incredibly well the last few years (apart from wages). We should have nicked their dof the season after they won the league and had their fire sale.
Click to expand...

He went to Everton and signed a shower of absolute brick.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/spo...ews/23-steve-walshs-signings-everton-17937898

Makes the signings of Lo Celso and Ndombele look like shrewd business. Just goes to show what a lottery signing players can be.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I'd say that teams tend to be put together over a 5 year period.... We are 6th biggest net spenders over the last 5 years (here are the top 10):

1. Man Utd: -£480m
2. Emirates Marketing Project: -£419m
3. Arsenal: £-333m
4. Everton: -£247m
5. Chelsea: -£240m
6. Spurs: -£207m
7. West Ham: -£197m
8. Aston Villa: -£194m
9. Wolves: -£187m
10. Brighton: -£186m

From the above it is clear to see that we obviously haven't spent money well as we have gone backwards compared to all 4 of the clubs appearing immediately below us in that list, despite them spending only a little less than us. It is also quite interesting that over this period our spending is very comparable to clubs who aren't really considered European qualifying clubs.

The other glaring anomaly is Liverpool who have only spent a net amount of £157m in that period, which is testament to them getting both buying and selling right and also having a great manager who has played the same sort of system year on year so money isn't being wasted on signings who don't fit the next manager's philosophy.

Slightly worryingly is the fact that we were only the 9th biggest spenders last summer:

1. Arsenal: -£121m
2. Man Utd: -£100m
3. Emirates Marketing Project: £-74m
4. Crystal Palace: -£66m
5. West Ham: -£64m
6. Leeds: -£55m
7. Leicester: -£49m
8. Brentford: -£34m
9. Tottenham: -£31m
10. Saudi Sportswashing Machine : -£26m

Being 9th biggest spenders after finishing 7th was never likely to see us do much climbing in the league, especially when considering that 3 of the clubs who were quite close to us on points in Arsenal, West Ham and Leicester all outspent us quite considerably.

Time will tell what the strategy of the owners will be in terms of transfer (and wage) spending. Personally I don't think it will be nearly enough to keep Conte here for long but time will tell and I'd love to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...

Yeah I just mentioned three seasons as we were obviously hampered by the stadium before that.

Also last summer doesn't include the eventual fee for Romero - appreciate that's technically accurate, but it does mean the figure is a bit misleading.

Thanks for the additional analysis!
 
parklane1 said:
And to think a lot of fans were saying how well they had done a few years ago by spending money. Its a risk and all clubs make bad ones.
Click to expand...

Hopefully the independent regulator brings in some proper financial controls. Wouldn't mind a la liga type spending cap.
 
glasgowspur said:
Surely the fact that utd, arsenal and Everton are three of the top four in that first lists tells us just spending money isn't the answer.
Add in that utd and arsenal spent more than us in the summer, from a stronger squad base to boot, then the amount you spend is of little consequence, its how you spend it.
Click to expand...
Arsenal had a weaker squad base than we did (as evidenced by us finishing above them in the league the past several years).
Man Utd I agree with. They have spent money strangely these past few years, buying players for positions where they are well stocked and ignoring positions where they are weak. I still expect them to finish above us this season though. My point here though is that we finished 7th last season and then spent the 9th highest amount in the league, with of the 3 clubs who finished closest to us in terms of points last season all outspending us. This makes it unlikely that we'll do much better this season. Yes we now have an elite manager in place, but it will be difficult for him to do much more than make up for the points we threw away in the opening part of the season when the manager we had in place was anything but elite, especially if 2 or 3 players that the manager wants aren't brought in this month.
 
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