Another shooting in Murica

[glorygloryeze]

There are as many unarmed white men killed by police in the US too, it's just not considered newsworthy.

Let's face it, right now taking out your phone when a policeman is chasing a black suspect might make you YouTube famous, nobody is going to bother if it's a white man.

I'm asking for your opinion about what you think happened in the 3 specific cases that have been filmed in the last week or so: what do YOU think happened in those 3 cases and why do YOU think those 3 people were shot in those 3 specific cases?
I am especially interested to hear why YOU think the therapist in Florida who looks after the autistic man who lay on the ground with his hands in the air and shouted out that he was unarmed was shot..

 

[Rorschach]

To try and improve this sh1t analogy...

It's like a breast cancer rally where the right-breasts get much better treatment than the left-breasts, so the left-breasts create a movement called "left-breasts matter" or LBM. It's not that they think right-breasts don't matter, it's just that they think left-breasts should get the same treatment. And then some tit shouts out "hey, right breasts matter too, ALL BREASTS MATTER!" to which the LBM movement says "yeah, that's our point you reactionary phucking boob."

Liked that.

 

[scaramanga]

I'm asking for your opinion about what you think happened in the 3 specific cases that have been filmed in the last week or so: what do YOU think happened in those 3 cases and why do YOU think those 3 people were shot in those 3 specific cases?
I am especially interested to hear why YOU think the therapist in Florida who looks after the autistic man who lay on the ground with his hands in the air and shouted out that he was unarmed was shot..

I know the reason was almost certainly not racism. As with everything, the simplest answer is almost always the correct one - in this case that means fudging up rather than a policeman thinking "I really hate black people. Whilst I'm wearing a camera and have one mounted on my dash, whilst there are people looking to film just this kind of thing on their phones and we're surrounded by traffic/security cameras I'll take this opportunity to risk the death penalty and take one out. I'll get a big old pat on the back at the clan for this".

 

[glorygloryeze]

I know the reason was almost certainly not racism. As with everything, the simplest answer is almost always the correct one - in this case that means fudgeing up rather than a policeman thinking "I really hate black people, whilst I'm wearing a camera and have one mounted on my dash, I'll take this opportunity to take one out. I'll get a big old pat on the back at the clan for this".

Yes, but in each case can you look at what happened and explain the fudge up; again i especially want to know your opinion on what you think happened re the therapist of the autistic man in Florida.
You're giving a very general answer; i want you to look at the specifics on the 3 cases i mention and give specific answers with your reasoning.

Happy for you to take you time on this.

 

[scaramanga]

Yes, but in each case can you look at what happened and explain the fudge up; again i especially want to know your opinion on what you think happened re the therapist of the autistic man in Florida.
You're giving a very general answer; i want you to look at the specifics on the 3 cases i mention and give specific answers with your reasoning.

Happy for you to take you time on this.

The answer in all cases is simple.

Our minds don't work rationally in stressful and tense situations. That's why we drill (and beast) the young men who join our armies - so that they don't have to think under pressure. Self-preservation and fear are so baked into our evolution it's surprising more mistakes aren't made - we are the way we are because those who ran first or killed first survived to work out later whether that was the right thing to do and pass those genes on.

So you have undertrained police (nobody's fault here - I don't know how you can fully train for this kind of pressure) who believe when they arrive at a scene that there's a chance they'll get shot at, under immense pressure and they make a snap decision. Bear in mind that Police in the US are currently going to work knowing they might be under sniper fire.

In the overwhelmingly large majority of cases, when police pull a gun on a suspect they make the right decision. In a tiny, tiny proportion of these they make a wrong one.

From a quick Google search, there are nearly a million police in the US and in high crime/violence areas they can pull their guns a few times a day at least. So let's reduce that to account for the police in places where there's no crime and they probably never pull a gun - let's say one gun pull per officer per day. That's 365,000,000 gun pulls a year, and in 2014 (most recent years I could find accurate data for) 100 unarmed shootings. You should also bear on mind that "unarmed" in that 100 includes people trying to take weapons from an officer, those pretending to have weapons, those charging at an officer, trying to run them over in a car, etc.

So overall (obviously this is very rough but it gives a good sense of scale) an unarmed person is killed in 0.000027% of officer gun pulls in the US. That kind of number doesn't square with me when trying to present a racist, murderous police force.

Then once the press and people who want to make a point on the Internet make up some reasoning of their own you have a news story.

 

[glorygloryeze]

The answer in all cases is simple.

Our minds don't work rationally in stressful and tense situations. That's why we drill (and beast) the young men who join our armies - so that they don't have to think under pressure. Self-preservation and fear are so baked into our evolution it's surprising more mistakes aren't made - we are the way we are because those who ran first or killed first survived to work out later whether that was the right thing to do and pass those genes on.

So you have undertrained police (nobody's fault here - I don't know how you can fully train for this kind of pressure) who believe when they arrive at a scene that there's a chance they'll get shot at, under immense pressure and they make a snap decision. Bear in mind that Police in the US are currently going to work knowing they might be under sniper fire.

In the overwhelmingly large majority of cases, when police pull a gun on a suspect they make the right decision. In a tiny, tiny proportion of these they make a wrong one.

From a quick Google search, there are nearly a million police in the US and in high crime/violence areas they can pull their guns a few times a day at least. So let's reduce that to account for the police in places where there's no crime and they probably never pull a gun - let's say one gun pull per officer per day. That's 365,000,000 gun pulls a year, and in 2014 (most recent years I could find accurate data for) 100 unarmed shootings. You should also bear on mind that "unarmed" in that 100 includes people trying to take weapons from an officer, those pretending to have weapons, those charging at an officer, trying to run them over in a car, etc.

So overall (obviously this is very rough but it gives a good sense of scale) an unarmed person is killed in 0.000027% of officer gun pulls in the US. That kind of number doesn't square with me when trying to present a racist, murderous police force.

Then once the press and people who want to make a point on the Internet make up some reasoning of their own you have a news story.

You've done a lot of generalising and theorising again and again failed to apply anything to the SPECIFIC cases i mentioned. I'll ask again but make i'll it even easier by limiting tings to ONE case this time:
Why do YOU think the therapist/carer of an autistic boy/man who was wondering around (causing someone to dial 911) who told the police in Florida when they arrived that he was the autistic boy/man's therapist AND that he was unarmed AND lay on the floor with his hands up AND shouted "please don't shoot" was still actually shot?
Which part of the above that you wrote do YOU think led to the therapist getting shot?
What "pressure" were the police who arrived on the scene to find a "suspect" on the floor unarmed AND explaining both himself and the autistic boy/man who caused the panic in the first place under?

 

[scaramanga]

You've done a lot of generalising and theorising again and again failed to apply anything to the SPECIFIC cases i mentioned. I'll ask again but make i'll it even easier by limiting tings to ONE case this time:
Why do YOU think the therapist/carer of an autistic boy/man who was wondering around (causing someone to dial 911) who told the police in Florida when they arrived that he was the autistic boy/man's therapist AND that he was unarmed AND lay on the floor with his hands up AND shouted "please don't shoot" was still actually shot?
Which part of the above that you wrote do YOU think led to the therapist getting shot?
What "pressure" were the police who arrived on the scene to find a "suspect" on the floor unarmed AND explaining both himself and the autistic boy/man who caused the panic in the first place under?

Seeing as you're the one accusing an officer of murder, I'd say the onus is on you to provide an explanation as to what happened. Especially as you claim your have some kind of insight into the motivations of the officer.

 

[AuroRaman]

Having thought about it, I don't think that analogy fits - breast and colon cancer are too disparate.

A better analogy would be a rally in support of people with cancer in the left breast only. In that case, people would (quite rightly) be asking why the fudge they're separating the two and what a ridiculous thing it is to do.

Oh ok. Got it. The BLM movement is ridiculous. Let's carry on killing unarmed black people and reason with armed white people. I'm out.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[scaramanga]

Oh ok. Got it. The BLM movement is ridiculous. Let's carry on killing unarmed black people and reason with armed white people. I'm out.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

They only have to drop one word from their title to start making sense.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Seeing as you're the one accusing an officer of murder, I'd say the onus is on you to provide an explanation as to what happened. Especially as you claim your have some kind of insight into the motivations of the officer.

Nope; i couldn't be accusing an officer of murder as the case i referred re the autistic boy/man didn't involve an actual death: the person shot survived. I was asking you why YOU thought he was shot in the first place looking at the specific situation and how it played out.
I didn't accuse anybody of anything, just wanted your view on the specific case (initially i wanted your view on the 3 cases but i eventually reduced it to one).

Anyway, i think i'll leave it there as you clearly have already some pre-conceived notions on these types of things anyhow regardless of what actions actually take place (you didn't even know there was no actual murder but continued to assume there was and had a ready-made answer for the situation that you didn't even know about lol)

 

[AuroRaman]

They only have to drop one word from their title to start making sense.

Sure


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[scaramanga]

Nope; i couldn't be accusing an officer of murder as the case i referred re the autistic boy/man didn't involve an actual death: the person shot survived. I was asking you why YOU thought he was shot in the first place looking at the specific situation and how it played out.
I didn't accuse anybody of anything, just wanted your view on the specific case (initially i wanted your view on the 3 cases but i eventually reduced it to one).

Anyway, i think i'll leave it there as you clearly have already some pre-conceived notions on these types of things anyhow regardless of what actions actually take place (you didn't even know there was no actual murder but continued to assume there was and had a ready-made answer for the situation that you didn't even know about lol)

I watched the video, saw he was shot and assumed he died because of the size of the media frenzy over it. Should have known better than to expect the media to be proportionate.

I'll do you a deal. I'll tell you what I think happened if you do the same. I'll also admit where I have to stray into assumptions because facts aren't there yet if you do the same.

The officer was informed the suspect had a gun. He turned up expecting someone to be armed and so was scared and jumpy (assumption based on almost every report of a police shooting I've ever read).

Based on the (intentionally?) chopped footage available, it looks like the one suspected to be holding a gun was still holding what the officer thought was a gun. He didn't lay down, he didn't put it down so when he moved, the officer shot, missed and hit the other guy (assumption based on Occam's razor).

A mistake, but one that leaves me with no reason whatsoever to think it was one made of malice.

 

[AuroRaman]

To try and improve this sh1t analogy...

It's like a breast cancer rally where the right-breasts get much better treatment than the left-breasts, so the left-breasts create a movement called "left-breasts matter" or LBM. It's not that they think right-breasts don't matter, it's just that they think left-breasts should get the same treatment. And then some tit shouts out "hey, right breasts matter too, ALL BREASTS MATTER!" to which the LBM movement says "yeah, that's our point you reactionary phucking boob."

Haha. Brilliant.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Baleforce]

I think it's far more complicated an issue than people suggest, drawing conclusions based on national statistics in a country with such a wide range of (perceived) social and economic status can't give an accurate picture

I'm sure there plenty of racist cops, there are plenty of racists everywhere

I don't believe being black alone makes you more likely to get shot by the police, the proliferation is a domino effect of so many other factors, it's the situation that makes a person likely to get shot, not the person themselves, you need to look at why these people have been fed into such situations, it's a complex system, certainly involving racism, but at a far removed level from the average cop on the street

 

[AuroRaman]

I watched the video, saw he was shot and assumed he died because of the size of the media frenzy over it. Should have known better than to expect the media to be proportionate.

I'll do you a deal. I'll tell you what I think happened if you do the same. I'll also admit where I have to stray into assumptions because facts aren't there yet if you do the same.

The officer was informed the suspect had a gun. He turned up expecting someone to be armed and so was scared and jumpy (assumption based on almost every report of a police shooting I've ever read).

Based on the (intentionally?) chopped footage available, it looks like the one suspected to be holding a gun was still holding what the officer thought was a gun. He didn't lay down, he didn't put it down so when he moved, the officer shot, missed and hit the other guy (assumption based on Occam's razor).

A mistake, but one that leaves me with no reason whatsoever to think it was one made of malice.

That's a lovely little story you've presented here Scara. However, I'm inclined to believe Charles Kinsey's version of events. You know, the guy that was actually there and the guy that was actually shot.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[scaramanga]

That's a lovely little story you've presented here Scara. However, I'm inclined to believe Charles Kinsey's version of events. You know, the guy that was actually there and the guy that was actually shot.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

The man who replied "I don't know" when asked why he was shot?

 

[AuroRaman]

The man who replied "I don't know" when asked why he was shot?

No he was the man that was shot. The Police Officer said 'I don't know' when Kinsey, with his arms still in the air, asked 'Sir. Why did you shoot me?'

 

[scaramanga]

No he was the man that was shot. The Police Officer said 'I don't know' when Kinsey, with his arms still in the air, asked 'Sir. Why did you shoot me?'

That's a quote from Kinsey too.

In the interview I found just before posting that he made his claim about what the policeman said and was then asked why he thought he'd been shot. He said he didn't know.

 

[AuroRaman]

That's a quote from Kinsey too.

In the interview I found just before posting that he made his claim about what the policeman said and was then asked why he thought he'd been shot. He said he didn't know.

My apologies, hadn't seen that.

 

[scaramanga]

My apologies, hadn't seen that.

NP. It's all speculation until the evidence gathering is complete anyway.

One one side you have a policeman who doesn't want to lose his job, on the other a man who wants a big payout from the state. I'm not inclined to listen too hard to either side until there's something to back it up.