• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Ange’s system / formation

DubaiSpur said:
To be fair, his post-match was him basically taking responsibility for the spinelessness of the side.



I have zero issues with Ange, the man. I think it's the glaring limitations of Ange, the coach, will ultimately keep us from doing anything substantial - but no arguing he says and believes in the right things.

To put it in perspective, my view has always been that the better coach and better option for us, was in the other dugout today. But it's rare that Poch ever came out and said 'I prepped the team and they were rubbish, so it's on me'.
Click to expand...

Sadly he was never going to come back to us; too many shadows on high who contributed to his sacking the first time.
 
glasgowspur said:
VDV se


I would have taken Poch back in a Heartbeat, but I think it would have been a mistake because for reasons that will always be unfathomable to me a large part of the supporters had turned against him.
When I read some comments on here about him I honestly can't believe it, especially when some ex players who have treated us worse are almost hero worshipped.
Click to expand...

I agree re: Poch. I think ultimately it comes down to two groups of people -

1) People who hate him for joining Chelsea, which is fair. Though, I would point out that he had no other choice - he spent half the summer waiting for us to call and we apparently never did, going for some guy from Scotland over him. So what was he supposed to do?

2) People who hate him because they think he effed up winning anything with the most talented squad we've had at Spurs. Which is, to me, just ludicrous, because *he built that squad* - he got us to the position where we could even dream about winning things, while working under the crushing shackles of a chairman who confounded him at every turn.

To me, he'll always be someone who understood us, through and through, and worked miracles under an ownership that sadly makes miracles near-impossible.

And honestly, though I have zero concerns with us continuing with Ange - I'm pretty convinced that if they keep him, Poch will win something with Chelsea long before Ange ever wins something with us. Just how it is.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I agree re: Poch. I think ultimately it comes down to two groups of people -

1) People who hate him for joining Chelsea, which is fair. Though, I would point out that he had no other choice - he spent half the summer waiting for us to call and we apparently never did, going for some guy from Scotland over him. So what was he supposed to do?

2) People who hate him because they think he effed up winning anything with the most talented squad we've had at Spurs. Which is, to me, just ludicrous, because *he built that squad* - he got us to the position where we could even dream about winning things, while working under the crushing shackles of a chairman who confounded him at every turn.

To me, he'll always be someone who understood us, through and through, and worked miracles under an ownership that sadly makes miracles near-impossible.

And honestly, though I have zero concerns with us continuing with Ange - I'm pretty convinced that if they keep him, Poch will win something with Chelsea long before Ange ever wins something with us. Just how it is.
Click to expand...
Their fans think he is awful
I was in a Chelsea pub and gor the train home with various Chelsea fans
They had no positives other than He has beaten us twice… but we’re brick
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Their fans think he is awful
I was in a Chelsea pub and gor the train home with various Chelsea fans
They had no positives other than He has beaten us twice… but we’re brick
Click to expand...
Football fans in a pub. Please don’t expect rational, balanced and educated opinions on football from that environment. ESPECIALLY a Chelsea pub.
 
DubaiSpur said:
I know they do. Their fans are a bunch of troglodyte gobbricks on the whole - sorry you had to go through that experience mate.
Click to expand...
I’m fine with it
The fans I met were ok
Yeah they were cavemen but they support their team
We think Poch is the messiah
The clubs he managed afterwards dont
 
90291Spur said:
Lots of people do that. And lots of them don’t understand the nuances of the game they see, nor the longer term process at hand. And then they go and moan about it in a pub.
Click to expand...
Well
It’s easier to not moan at home
Or to moan in an armchair
Any fan looking from the outside at Chelsea can see it’s a car crash with or without Poch
Poch had a choice to make and he took the money on offer there. He has to deal with what he has and know his rep is now transited with both clubs
 
DubaiSpur said:
Speaking of Arteta, it's interesting what he said at the end of at the weekend. He said they were forced into playing deeper than they would have liked by the fact that we surge so many men forward and press high, and I think he admitted they were second best for a lot of that game.

To me, that's why Ange isn't as bad as the recent results paint him as. Nor is he as good as the first 10 games.

If you slowly build him his team and give him hundreds of millions for it, he will likely do fairly well, when he isn't outcoached by a better manager. His system alone will overwhelm enough opponents to get some wins.

That isn't terrible by any means. But it also isn't great by any means, because any manager with a baseline level of tactical ability will work to counter his system and expose its glaring flaws. And ultimately, Postecoglou will not adapt to fix those issues because to him dogmatism is all-important.

That's why I think we've seen both his ceiling and floor. And we saw it again today - bet his response to being asked why we conceded another two at set pieces will be some aimless ramble about playing his way.
Click to expand...
I will continue to applaud Ange for his "dogmatism". I don't think he's any more or worse in his dogmatic approach than Pep, Klopp, Arteta etc.

I think he knows that there will be real bumps in the road with that approach. But I also think it's a good path forward. To actually instill a system of play over time.

He does make tactical tweaks and changes. But not big strategic changes. Had he done that at this point I would start being concerned.

I don't think we can realistically describe things going wrong now as "glaring flaws" in his system. Give other system based managers similar squad weaknesses and I think you would see similar flaws. As we have seen with others in the past. Here and elsewhere.

Pochettino gets brought up repeatedly and the point is often made about a lack of signings and it's a valid point. It was a huge obstacle to overcome. He ended up with too many players that either weren't good enough or didn't fit the system. And it fell apart. Similarly early on for Klopp, Arteta, even Pep.

Sticking dogmaticly to a system will sometimes fail spectacularly. But imo it's also the best path to real growth and development into something that can be really good.
 
90291Spur said:
Lots of people do that. And lots of them don’t understand the nuances of the game they see, nor the longer term process at hand. And then they go and moan about it in a pub.
Click to expand...
Could say the exact same thing about our fans now with Ange.
 
I think Moyes has done a tremendous job with West Ham and expect them to be back in the championship in two years.
 
Lilbaz said:
Got them in europe in consecutive seasons and won a trophy. For west ham that is good.
Click to expand...

West Ham fans can't wait to see the back of him despite the european trophy (though they obviously appreciate him for winning it)
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’m fine with it
The fans I met were ok
Yeah they were cavemen but they support their team
We think Poch is the messiah
The clubs he managed afterwards dont
Click to expand...
Poch was good for us, but he's not an indisputably great manager. Like you say his appointments post Spurs show that.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back