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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 67 37.2%

  • Out

    Votes: 113 62.8%
  • Total voters
    180
Silly McSilly Face said:
He did carry us to an extent in that there were plenty games he won or got us a point in on his own. But he's not the sort of player you could really build a consistent winning team around because he did hog the ball, he did always want to try and beat that one last player rather than choose the early ball, he did leave his position a lot and didn't really get involved in defensive shape or structures. That's all I'm saying. Summary: "He was a legend; FOR HIS TIME"
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Yes, but you can only be as good as the moment you're in. And Ginola was a shining light during some persistently gloomy weather. Trust me, he is the ONLY reason anyone remembers that white Pony shirt from 98/99...it isn't Neilsen!
 
Massive few weeks for Ange.

It's now about that saying "talk the talk, walk the walk" in my mind. We've listened to Ange for 2 seasons and I've always felt that he's incredibly clever with words. It's delivered in a straight talking, common sense style but behind that there is a really clever word-smither.

It feels like we're getting ever closer to having a fully fit quota of players. 15 of them have come back unscathed from the international break and some have sharpened their match fitness. We are now at that magic number of 16 that you need to have quality starters and quality subs in every match.

I think the conditions are set fair for Ange to finally get something going with his players.
 
Muttley said:
Massive few weeks for Ange.

It's now about that saying "talk the talk, walk the walk" in my mind. We've listened to Ange for 2 seasons and I've always felt that he's incredibly clever with words. It's delivered in a straight talking, common sense style but behind that there is a really clever word-smither.

It feels like we're getting ever closer to having a fully fit quota of players. 15 of them have come back unscathed from the international break and some have sharpened their match fitness. We are now at that magic number of 16 that you need to have quality starters and quality subs in every match.

I think the conditions are set fair for Ange to finally get something going with his players.
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I don't understand really.
Nothing has changed.
He is essentially a dead man walking and we need to win the Europa for this season to make any true sense.

Can I ask what the 'word-smithery' opinion has to do with what we need to do if we want to win the Europa? Or are you just restating an opinion?
 
Muttley said:
Massive few weeks for Ange.

It's now about that saying "talk the talk, walk the walk" in my mind. We've listened to Ange for 2 seasons and I've always felt that he's incredibly clever with words. It's delivered in a straight talking, common sense style but behind that there is a really clever word-smither.

It feels like we're getting ever closer to having a fully fit quota of players. 15 of them have come back unscathed from the international break and some have sharpened their match fitness. We are now at that magic number of 16 that you need to have quality starters and quality subs in every match.

I think the conditions are set fair for Ange to finally get something going with his players.
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I think you're in a pool of about 1, fans and players, who hasnt checked out of this season and reign a long time ago. These games are the absolute definition of dead rubbers
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think you're in a pool of about 1, fans and players, who hasnt checked out of this season and reign a long time ago. These games are the absolute definition of dead rubbers
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I don't think the players ever checked out of this season or reign, and I think plenty will want to go for the Europa as it is essentially a mini-mini season. The issue is everyone else checked out and started slagging the bloke off from January on. He isn't looking to save his job IMO because he knows it is done...
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
He did carry us to an extent in that there were plenty games he won or got us a point in on his own. But he's not the sort of player you could really build a consistent winning team around because he did hog the ball, he did always want to try and beat that one last player rather than choose the early ball, he did leave his position a lot and didn't really get involved in defensive shape or structures. That's all I'm saying. Summary: "He was a legend; FOR HIS TIME"
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Modern football philosophy is a bit meh. If you're a good enough attacking player you don't need to defend.
 
thfcsteff said:
I don't understand really.
Nothing has changed.
He is essentially a dead man walking and we need to win the Europa for this season to make any true sense.

Can I ask what the 'word-smithery' opinion has to do with what we need to do if we want to win the Europa? Or are you just restating an opinion?
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lol - bringing an Ange In and Out thread back to Ange In and Out conversation. We can carry on talking about Ginola if you like.

Do we know he is dead man walking? Do we know that this set of players won't get up for every game? It was 16 Feb against Utd when we had our first semblance of a squad after the injury and fatigue period. We always said there would be a period of those players getting right up to match fitness and form. Well we now enter April and hopefully the pieces should be in place.

It is now contingent on the managers and players to walk the talk. I think we will learn a lot from this point.

The word-smithing / EL connection is yours not mine actually. That was just a general comment by me about Ange comms. However, it's clear that Ange will need to at his motivational best to get these players into the right belief system to win that cup. It is why it just isn't as simple as sacrificing the league to win the cup. You have to use the league to get the momentum for the cups. That is the winning mentality I want to see. Also, those 3 or 4 places in the league are worth a few quid as well.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think you're in a pool of about 1, fans and players, who hasnt checked out of this season and reign a long time ago. These games are the absolute definition of dead rubbers
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Nope, for the reasons I said above. How can we win the EL if we're not using the league to get all our tactics honed in and building confidence into the players? We don't have a 2019 situation where a mostly talented squad had been together for 3-4 years and knew exactly what Poch wanted. I sort of understood then why the weekdays were good but the weekends were rubbish.
 
On point about Ange being a dead man walking absolutely agree with point about nobody really knowing. One thing that 100% seems to have happened is the leaks from the club seem to have stopped. Nobody seems to be "ITK" and even the journalists that usually have reliable insight seem to have no clue on Ange's future.

We don't know what Lange, Munn and Levy are thinking. There's probably two key "schools of thought" they're considering:
1) That the squad is inexperienced, has been plagued by injuries and Ange deserves another season to see how much he is individually responsible for this season.
2) That he has contributed significantly to the overall problems we've had this season and they believe a change in coach would reap dividends next season.

For all we know (v. likely) there isn't a clear view across senior leadership at the club.

Ultimately Ange's time will be finished when all the key players (Levy, Munn, Lange, and advisors Levy likes to lean on e.g. Paratici) reach a consensus that Ange isn't the man anymore.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
On point about Ange being a dead man walking absolutely agree with point about nobody really knowing. One thing that 100% seems to have happened is the leaks from the club seem to have stopped. Nobody seems to be "ITK" and even the journalists that usually have reliable insight seem to have no clue on Ange's future.

We don't know what Lange, Munn and Levy are thinking. There's probably two key "schools of thought" they're considering:
1) That the squad is inexperienced, has been plagued by injuries and Ange deserves another season to see how much he is individually responsible for this season.
2) That he has contributed significantly to the overall problems we've had this season and they believe a change in coach would reap dividends next season.

For all we know (v. likely) there isn't a clear view across senior leadership at the club.

Ultimately Ange's time will be finished when all the key players (Levy, Munn, Lange, and advisors Levy likes to lean on e.g. Paratici) reach a consensus that Ange isn't the man anymore.
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It's definitely interesting how the decision needs to be made. Scott Munn is our chief football officer and I assume they all report to him. He then reports up to Levy. So regardless of who Munn seeks advice from, the decision to continue with Ange or replace him has to sit with him in the way I'm thinking of it.

I also think about something Munn said. It was something like him always trying to remove obstacles and create the right conditions for people who work for him to be successful in their roles. That is why I think nothing has been knee-jerk with the situation due to the squad inavailability and fatigue issues we've encountered this season.

I genuinely want us to batter Chelsea. They have control of 4th place by a single point and a loss against Spurs could knock them back to 8th. What more motive do Spurs players need?
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
On point about Ange being a dead man walking absolutely agree with point about nobody really knowing. One thing that 100% seems to have happened is the leaks from the club seem to have stopped. Nobody seems to be "ITK" and even the journalists that usually have reliable insight seem to have no clue on Ange's future.

We don't know what Lange, Munn and Levy are thinking. There's probably two key "schools of thought" they're considering:
1) That the squad is inexperienced, has been plagued by injuries and Ange deserves another season to see how much he is individually responsible for this season.
2) That he has contributed significantly to the overall problems we've had this season and they believe a change in coach would reap dividends next season.

For all we know (v. likely) there isn't a clear view across senior leadership at the club.

Ultimately Ange's time will be finished when all the key players (Levy, Munn, Lange, and advisors Levy likes to lean on e.g. Paratici) reach a consensus that Ange isn't the man anymore.
Click to expand...

I think there will be protests and boycotts of the scale we've not seen since the last months of Sugar, if there's any hint that Ange might survive. It would be negligently condemning us to major regression and a likely full blown relegation battle.
 
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I still think there's a chance we finish the season on good form once the returning players shake off the ring rust.

It's the hope that kills you.

(Tbf if we finish the season strongly, even if we don't win the EL, I'd give Ange another season, after which he, Poch, Iraola, and Silva will all be out of contract.)
 
Gutter Boy said:
I think there will be protests and boycotts of the scale we've not seen since the last months of Sugar, if there's any hint that Ange might survive. It would be negligently condemning us to majorregression and a likely full blown relegation battle.
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You say that but only c. 55% on here are Ange Out (poll). Fan base essentially divided (yet again).
 
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