Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[milo]

His job-title is irrelevant - what matters is the ethos he introduces to the club and implements on all levels. He can set it out in a report to the youth coach for all it's worth but the underlying principles and overall approach are informed by him (or should ideally be) - as it has been the case in most successful clubs in recent history

If his job title is irrelevant why did we decide to change it?

 

[ArcspacE]

Irrelevant in the context of having the responsiblity to inform the club's transformation from youth level. Who do you think would be responsbible for outlining the fundamental principles?

 

[milo]

Irrelevant in the context of having the responsiblity to inform the club's transformation from youth level. Who do you think would be responsbible for outlining the fundamental principles?

I think that the change in job title probably points towards us appointing a sporting director/director of football at some stage

 

[Harry_Perkins]

That couldn't be further from the truth and I prat tell Levy sticks to his word this time and sees this our medim-to-long terms.

There are countless examples of slow starters who have been highly successful

In recent times? At specific clubs after struggling for years? Like who? And do they counter the numbers who've come in and not started slow? Moyes, Wenger, Redknapp, Mourinho, to name just a few? And why it is far from the truth? Jol got 5th twice and was replaced. You think AVB is sure in 8th now and 3 more bad results?

What on earth does Bosman have to do with his success - that is strawman, at best.

And yes - there WAS Champions League - simply without the catchy tune

If you don't think these things, amongst many, many others, have resulted in major changes to the game since 1986-1990 then there is not much point in going any further. This was the same era as when we could go down and retain one of the best young players in the country in Hoddle. Contrast with what would happen now. Rooney lasted two years at Everton and they were hardly struggling. So you had time to build. You knew players weren't going to wanting to leave very rapidly. That lead to an entirely different approach and it lead to entirely different attitudes from the owners, from the fans and from the management. It is just natural selection. Those best suited to the environment survive. The environment now is almost uncomparable to 1986-1990. So, today, arguing not to sack a manager struggling for 4 years because he could be the next Alex Ferguson is just daft. Well, in fairness, no one would get that far anyway.

You're suggesting chooping and changing if we don't win the title this year - well, we've been doing it for more than a decade under ENIC and what have we achieved? One League Cup?

On the flip side, things would be just great if we'd given Glenn Hoddle a bit longer? Or George Graham? Or Gerry Francis? They just didn't have the talent. All the time in the world wasn't likely to change that. They all got too long, if anything. So yes, I think we'd have been better off with more and quicker chopping and changing, in fact. Why assume that if we'd just had more stability we'd have done better than we have done? I'd say there is more evidence to say that chopping and changing was how we got a cup win, top 4 twice and a champions league quarter-final. After all, we went through 3 managers in about 3 years leading up to that. Meanwhile, how did we get on when we were regularly giving every new manager 3 or 4 years?

 

[thfcsteff]

AVB needs...


1) At least two of his key players back from injury.
2) Some support in the transfer market.
3) 6 months after this with both before he should be judged.

We can discuss predecessors if anyone wants, but the bottom line is this bloke came into a job with huge expectations, was shorn of three massive players before his seat was warm and then saw 4 more on the long-term crocks list. It is impossible to accurately judge anything with regards to his performance when we view the situation in this context.

 

[milo]

AVB needs...


1) At least two of his key players back from injury.
2) Some support in the transfer market.
3) 6 months after this with both before he should be judged.

We can discuss predecessors if anyone wants, but the bottom line is this bloke came into a job with huge expectations, was shorn of three massive players before his seat was warm and then saw 4 more on the long-term crocks list. It is impossible to accurately judge anything with regards to his performance when we view the situation in this context.

He'll be here until the end of time if he needs a fully fit squad for two months before he can be judged. I think that he should be given until the end of the season and see where we are then, that is long enough for us to see evidence of the team taking on his ideas and whether it is likely to be successful.

 

[Golfball]

AVB needs...


1) At least two of his key players back from injury.
2) Some support in the transfer market.
3) 6 months after this with both before he should be judged.

We can discuss predecessors if anyone wants, but the bottom line is this bloke came into a job with huge expectations, was shorn of three massive players before his seat was warm and then saw 4 more on the long-term crocks list. It is impossible to accurately judge anything with regards to his performance when we view the situation in this context.

1) It would help, but we do have a decent squad. When two come back two more will get injured. It is what normally happens, especially to us.
2) He will get a few players he wants, probably on the last day of the transfer window. The big one will be missed. In other words he will get what every other Levy manager gets.
3) 6 months after a perfect transfer window and an injury free squad. Right, well that will never happen. So where does that leave us ? no expectations ever ? You saying we don't have a squad good enough for anything right now. And what if AVB loses his next 8 games in a row - what happens then ?

As Kenny Daglish wrote when AVB took over, he's the luckiest manager ever to take over at Spurs. Even with the loss of Modric (I cant count VDV as he chose to lose him) it is a fantastic young squad with far less expectation than any other of the top 5 clubs in the PL. Normally a manager taking over at a club after someone has been sacked has to sort out a big mess (like Jol and HR did).

 

[DHSF]

You know what has occurred to me?

What in the hell has AVB truly proved to warrant people actually wanting him in the first place? Didnt Ramos also do well with Seville and we all know how that turned out.

AVB had one truly great year for him and thats really it - is that really enough? I dont understand why there is all this 'adulation' so to speak for him.

 

[Golfball]

He'll be here until the end of time if he needs a fully fit squad for two months before he can be judged. I think that he should be given until the end of the season and see where we are then, that is long enough for us to see evidence of the team taking on his ideas and whether it is likely to be successful.

That is pretty much in line with my thoughts, but that relies on him keeping us in the top 10 throughout the season at least. And it will require a really strong finish to the season to keep him in his job if we are to finish outside the top 5 (and he would need to convince Levy our players were just slow learners).

 

[billyiddo]

You know what has occurred to me?

What in the hell has AVB truly proved to warrant people actually wanting him in the first place? Didnt Ramos also do well with Seville and we all know how that turned out.

AVB had one truly great year for him and thats really it - is that really enough? I dont understand why there is all this 'adulation' so to speak for him.

to be honest i don't recall too many people actually calling for him to come in when Redknapp was sacked, i wouldn't say he was many posters first choice at that point. it was more a case that once he was heavily linked that people started to get on board with it and after his appointment people were looking towards the positives from his short career

 

[Leeds Spur]

That's true.

Speaking of notes, I'd like to know what AVB is constantly writing in that notepad of his which he always seems to fill.

All work an no play make andre a dull boy?

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

I'd say we are looking for excuses. Losing away to Arsenal, City or Saudi Sportswashing Machine isn't a disgrace by any means but the performances against weaker teams hasn't been great. Especially considering the majority of the team is still made up of players who were here last season, so we can't blame a team shake up either in my opinion.

I just don't agree with that, how can you possibly look at the squads from last year and this year and not say their's been a shake up? It's not like a computer game where you can change half the side and click straight away (we've actually changed more than half the side!).

Also you seem to be dismissing the injury crisis we have because you don't rate the players who are injured, the fact is kaboul, BAE and Parker were all 1st choice under Harry and prob would be under AVB (Parker rotated with sandro).

 

[Golfball]

You know what has occurred to me?

What in the hell has AVB truly proved to warrant people actually wanting him in the first place? Didnt Ramos also do well with Seville and we all know how that turned out.

AVB had one truly great year for him and thats really it - is that really enough? I dont understand why there is all this 'adulation' so to speak for him.

AVB had a great season with Porto to be fair, but it isn't a strong league. Really he needs 5 seasons as a number 2 in the PL to gain experience as I think in 10 years he could be a decent manager.

He was brick at Chelsea and im sure RA thought he was there for the long term, but when you see someone doing so poorly in the short term, what right do they have to oversee a long term change at the club. What I find quite funny is when I found all the AVB threads from when he was at Chelsea, with several of the people really defending him now were some of his biggest critics back then. He went from being a joke to a GHod, all because of their dislike for Redknapp (yeah I cant really work that out either).

 

[thfcsteff]

He'll be here until the end of time if he needs a fully fit squad for two months before he can be judged. I think that he should be given until the end of the season and see where we are then, that is long enough for us to see evidence of the team taking on his ideas and whether it is likely to be successful.

Note, mate, I did not say a fully fit squad as I agree, that would be impossible and no manager can ask for that. I'm just saying two of the four long-term would be nice...

 

[Leeds Spur]

I hear RDM is on the way out at chelscum. And to think people point to AVB being sacked as validation that he's brick!! Qunts

 

[billyiddo]

I just don't agree with that, how can you possibly look at the squads from last year and this year and not say their's been a shake up? It's not like a computer game where you can change half the side and click straight away (we've actually changed more than half the side!).

Also you seem to be dismissing the injury crisis we have because you don't rate the players who are injured, the fact is kaboul, BAE and Parker were all 1st choice under Harry and prob would be under AVB (Parker rotated with sandro).

^ it's not looking for excuses, just understanding the circumstances. having both last seasons cb's, central midfielders, attacking midfielder and forward either injured, retired or sold is going to cause problems to how we play/take to the new style - does it justify taking 2 points from home games against Wigan, Norwich and West Brom ? no of course not. would it go some way to explain why we haven't been able to find our rhythm in terms of style/consistency? imv, of bloody course it does! and is it fair to draw conclusions on the manager under these circumstances ?

 

[thfcsteff]

1) It would help, but we do have a decent squad. When two come back two more will get injured. It is what normally happens, especially to us.
2) He will get a few players he wants, probably on the last day of the transfer window. The big one will be missed. In other words he will get what every other Levy manager gets.
3) 6 months after a perfect transfer window and an injury free squad. Right, well that will never happen. So where does that leave us ? no expectations ever ? You saying we don't have a squad good enough for anything right now. And what if AVB loses his next 8 games in a row - what happens then ?

As Kenny Daglish wrote when AVB took over, he's the luckiest manager ever to take over at Spurs. Even with the loss of Modric (I cant count VDV as he chose to lose him) it is a fantastic young squad with far less expectation than any other of the top 5 clubs in the PL. Normally a manager taking over at a club after someone has been sacked has to sort out a big mess (like Jol and HR did).

I would agree that injuries will happen, thus why I think even just two of the current injured list would be good. On point 2, I have to hope you're wrong but yes, I would agree it is possible. Levy has done many great things in his time with us, most notably keeping us punching like a big boy when our stadium holds 10-30,000 less than our rivals BUT he did not do the right thing by AVB this summer re: Moutinho and Damiao. As I explained earlier, an injury-free squad is utopia I agree, but again, if principles could remain fit it would help.

I think the squad is good when most of it is fit, but he has some very important players out. He needs a little more quality too, not loads.
'Luckiest manager to ever take over at Spurs?' I would argue that was Harry. Anyone with a braincell knew that with our players and resources we would not go down, indeed, we could hit Europe. The expectation? Not sure I agree with that...I think the club carries great expectations. Infact, between the lovefest for Harry and the hatefest for AVB, the bloke's been under the gun since the get-go.

 

[thfcsteff]

I hear RDM is on the way out at chelscum. And to think people point to AVB being sacked as validation that he's brick!! Qunts

Unbelievable isn't it...Chelski are a horrible horrible club...

 

[DHSF]

I hear RDM is on the way out at chelscum. And to think people point to AVB being sacked as validation that he's brick!! Qunts

The question that should be answered - is what points to AVB being actually any good? As asked and some have answered - what warrants this 'loyalty' to him? Loyalty is different from support. One good season in a very inferior league does not particularly point to him being any good.

I support AVB but certainly not loyal to him. just not sure where the hell this loyalty stems from and where this expectation that AVB will do well and is the man for the job comes from.

Harry had to prove it before anyone on here was particularly loyal or dare I say it supportive but with AVB its the cart before the horse.

 

[DHSF]

AVB had a great season with Porto to be fair, but it isn't a strong league. Really he needs 5 seasons as a number 2 in the PL to gain experience as I think in 10 years he could be a decent manager.

He was brick at Chelsea and im sure RA thought he was there for the long term, but when you see someone doing so poorly in the short term, what right do they have to oversee a long term change at the club. What I find quite funny is when I found all the AVB threads from when he was at Chelsea, with several of the people really defending him now were some of his biggest critics back then. He went from being a joke to a GHod, all because of their dislike for Redknapp (yeah I cant really work that out either).

I agree with you with the last sentence hence my question about AVB. Its like its come out of thin air and there is an expectancy that given the opportunity he will make us a force - not sure where the track record comes from that he will achieve that.