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American politics

Wow, the scenes outside the prison where they are releasing the Capitol Hill mob..............what an embarrassing advert for the US, southern drawl inbred types talking about freedoms............wow
 
Rorschach said:
I would argue that we certainly could fix the mess we are in but it is apparent we have not the desire to do so in large enough numbers. Capitalism is really the opiate of the masses. And when those numbers do swell to some sort of critical mass as a result of worsening conditions, everywhere, it will be too late to do anything meaningful. It may already be.
Time is the resource we have least of. This is why we can ill afford to give up this precious time to Trump. A pathetic failed businessman and gameshow host is stealing our future from us. How fudging stupid do you have to be to let this man con you over and over? So 4 more years at least of bedlam and coddling a dictator instead of doing what is needed.
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This is exactly what I was getting at.
We're past the point of being able to keep the world environmentally stable.
We might still be able to keep it roughly as it is.

But the "we can't fix it" is my view that "we" (Homosapiens) can't do it because of mental limitations. We've tried many times, and failed more often than not.

Humans are reactive. What I find interesting is that we managed to fix the oZone hole, but can't repeat it.

Re: stupid. Is it stupid?
If he makes your life better, is it stupid? What the price of your life being better Vs someone else's rights and comfort?
If the world is already screwed, why not just have more?
Horrible questions, I know.
Positions I don't like or believe in. But I can see why people would make the choice. Some of it is stupidity, but for most I think it's immediacy.

Of course the irony is that those people have turned to capitalism to fix the issues of capitalism.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Unfortunately for humans the timing of social media turning up in our lives couldn't be worse.

Yes, one would think 'what a tool for connection, calibration, a vehicle for the hive mind'

But instead we have ....polarisation on virtually any subject you care to mention, evaporation of the middle ground, misinformation, critical thinking on its way out, long form discussion a thing of the past, an information feed on fast forward, time wasted on mind numbing brick, potential brain developmental issues for this generation of kids (yep the guys and girls who'll be in the thick of it in 20-30 years), and as we have seen, sovereign individuals using the (their) tool and placing themselves in control and/or with influence in the running of countries.

Certainly sounds like bad timing when there's an issue that will effect us ALL needs ALL to pay attention.
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Fully agree on almost everything. The internet in general was touted along the same lines if I recall. I'd say Wikipedia is only site that fulfilled this promise (contribute to them if you haven't).

Bar Bluesky (and this site) I am off all social media thankfully. Bluesky is awash with doom at the moment, and I pretty much only follow climate folk, so I'll have to avoid that if I can for a while. They are not in a good mood.
 
Rorschach said:
Fully agree on almost everything. The internet in general was touted along the same lines if I recall. I'd say Wikipedia is only site that fulfilled this promise (contribute to them if you haven't).

Bar Bluesky (and this site) I am off all social media thankfully. Bluesky is awash with doom at the moment, and I pretty much only follow climate folk, so I'll have to avoid that if I can for a while. They are not in a good mood.
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And that has only been recently - they had to build credibility. Looking as Wikipedia used to an actual joke.
Credit to them for sure
 
monkeybarry said:
This is exactly what I was getting at.
We're past the point of being able to keep the world environmentally stable.
We might still be able to keep it roughly as it is.

But the "we can't fix it" is my view that "we" (Homosapiens) can't do it because of mental limitations. We've tried many times, and failed more often than not.

Humans are reactive. What I find interesting is that we managed to fix the oZone hole, but can't repeat it.

Re: stupid. Is it stupid?
If he makes your life better, is it stupid? What the price of your life being better Vs someone else's rights and comfort?
If the world is already screwed, why not just have more?
Horrible questions, I know.
Positions I don't like or believe in. But I can see why people would make the choice. Some of it is stupidity, but for most I think it's immediacy.

Of course the irony is that those people have turned to capitalism to fix the issues of capitalism.
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People are capable of great things under the right circumstances. But the greed of a few has stopped these conditions from happening, intentionally obviously. I wouldn't write us off yet . You don't need everyone on your side to have a popular social movement. Just a small percentage is enough.

Actually I have yet to see any of Trump's policies make anyone's life better, unless you are in the 0.1% . They are just very good at mind fudgein people into voting against their best interests.

You last comment is spot on. Capitalism is killing us.
 
Craig_J said:
As for the salute by Musk...

How insulting it is people say it is because he has Abergers


I don't for one second doubt that Musk has the condition and that it is somewhat responsible for a lot of his odness..

But in all his career he hasn't done this once...

I so hope someone is able to deubnk that and explain it away.

But it comes across as if he has chosen a huge moment to dog whistle...

And it is deplorable to blame it on neurovidversity.
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I've a daughter with Aspergers so have a decent bit of observation knowledge about ASD, from her and her friend groups.

His behaviour is entirely on his personality, it may be magnified because he's on the spectrum, but being on the spectrum doesn't make you a dingdong.
 
Rorschach said:
People are capable of great things under the right circumstances. But the greed of a few has stopped these conditions from happening, intentionally obviously. I wouldn't write us off yet . You don't need everyone on your side to have a popular social movement. Just a small percentage is enough.

Actually I have yet to see any of Trump's policies make anyone's life better, unless you are in the 0.1% . They are just very good at mind fudgein people into voting against their best interests.

You last comment is spot on. Capitalism is killing us.
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People are, yes. Humanity isn't, sadly. It's a human flaw - blaming "the other", & "having belief in/putting faith in, something unattainable (whether it's religion or wealth).

Humans are terrible at acting holistically. I think that is of our own making - boat travel, air travel, digital Comms etc all break down the barriers of the living in tribes. In tribes you can handle the amount of information present within the group and environment to manage it sustainably.
It's been that way throughout the Homo evolution - wasn't the last other Homo wiped out by Homosapien expansion?

Re; Trump's policies. I tend to agree. But it's not something tangible that's being brought and sold. It's "possiblity" and "removal of the barriers to greatness".

Capitalism is brick and will probably be the end of humanity. But humans have been trying to do it for centuries through a variety of different social structures. This one just destroys the eco system too! So, you know, no biggie
 
Craig_J said:
As for the salute by Musk...

How insulting it is people say it is because he has Abergers


I don't for one second doubt that Musk has the condition and that it is somewhat responsible for a lot of his odness..

But in all his career he hasn't done this once...

I so hope someone is able to deubnk that and explain it away.

But it comes across as if he has chosen a huge moment to dog whistle...

And it is deplorable to blame it on neurovidversity.
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I am Aspie (note - "am", not "have").
My initial reaction on seeing the photo was it's nothing.
When I saw the first one, I also thought it's nothing.

I've made similar gestures to friends (tap my heart and then raise my hand up, arm stretched out, to show love and wave goodbye). I've also done the occasional maneurism that I've immediately said "whoops, that's looked a bit Nazi" afterwards.

Autism, by it's nature, means a lack of social awareness. But, somewhat paradoxically, it also means a heightened awareness of social behaviour - because autistics spend our whole lives monitoring social norms and masking (it's fudging exhausting).

So that's brings me to the end of the first gesture. Musk will know and understand the social context within which he is present.
If he was excited or tired (both very plausible), it is perfectly reasonable for him to make that gesture as "I show you love" and forget the optics. It was also off centre etc and not definitely a Nazi style salute.

We then reach the second one. That IS exactly a Nazi style salute. But could still be put down to neurodiversity (Nd is a contextualisation for some "behavioural issues"; that is distinct from being an excuse. They are, however, close lines).

At this point I was still in two minds. I've watched it numerous times and come to differing conclusions.

We then move onto the extra context:

I.
His reply on X. He didn't distance himself from it. He didn't recognise it as an error and say so.
It may take a few days for him to realise that - I know it does for me sometimes.

II.
His history of being supportive of the likes of Tommy Robinson, and if I remember wasn't he positive about apartheid?

The full picture makes me think it was a Nazi salute.
 
monkeybarry said:
People are, yes. Humanity isn't, sadly. It's a human flaw - blaming "the other", & "having belief in/putting faith in, something unattainable (whether it's religion or wealth).

Humans are terrible at acting holistically. I think that is of our own making - boat travel, air travel, digital Comms etc all break down the barriers of the living in tribes. In tribes you can handle the amount of information present within the group and environment to manage it sustainably.
It's been that way throughout the Homo evolution - wasn't the last other Homo wiped out by Homosapien expansion?

Re; Trump's policies. I tend to agree. But it's not something tangible that's being brought and sold. It's "possiblity" and "removal of the barriers to greatness".

Capitalism is brick and will probably be the end of humanity. But humans have been trying to do it for centuries through a variety of different social structures. This one just destroys the eco system too! So, you know, no biggie
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Some humans, about a third or so, tend to hierarchical social structures that are competitive and they gravitate to idea of a strong leader that will sort all their brick out. Another third seeks to achieve social equality and egalitarianism and all that good stuff. This second bunch have driven all positive social change over the ages and have cooperated against the odds to do so, and if we are to be saved it will come from here. And as I mentioned it only takes few per cent of the populace committed to a cause to make it a reality. Maybe we are doomed but at least some will go down swinging, and just maybe that will be enough to save something worthwhile.

If I recall from Sapiens I think we did in all the other humans, and all the megafauna too. See we can cooperate when we need to! :)
 
Rorschach said:
Some humans, about a third or so, tend to hierarchical social structures that are competitive and they gravitate to idea of a strong leader that will sort all their brick out. Another third seeks to achieve social equality and egalitarianism and all that good stuff. This second bunch have driven all positive social change over the ages and have cooperated against the odds to do so, and if we are to be saved it will come from here. And as I mentioned it only takes few per cent of the populace committed to a cause to make it a reality. Maybe we are doomed but at least some will go down swinging, and just maybe that will be enough to save something worthwhile.

If I recall from Sapiens I think we did in all the other humans, and all the megafauna too. See we can cooperate when we need to! :)
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What's the other third doing?
 
Rorschach said:
Some humans, about a third or so, tend to hierarchical social structures that are competitive and they gravitate to idea of a strong leader that will sort all their brick out. Another third seeks to achieve social equality and egalitarianism and all that good stuff. This second bunch have driven all positive social change over the ages and have cooperated against the odds to do so, and if we are to be saved it will come from here. And as I mentioned it only takes few per cent of the populace committed to a cause to make it a reality. Maybe we are doomed but at least some will go down swinging, and just maybe that will be enough to save something worthwhile.

If I recall from Sapiens I think we did in all the other humans, and all the megafauna too. See we can cooperate when we need to! :)
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Or.... maybe we didn't. Maybe we just kept electing them?!

On a bit of a tangent - there is a film on Amazon called Civil War. It's about the US in a modern day civil war
 
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