greatwhitenorf
Edgar Davids
Fair assessment. Fair question.
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Adama Traore
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
Fair assessment. Fair question.
Bishop
John Lacy
Exactly this, none of these Ayers added skills or attributes they didn't already posses. They just refined them in some cases, became more serious about their careers in others or were just not identified in some. That's not the same as Traore who was identified as a talent early on, going through one of the finest finishing schools in the entire football world. He's not a secret or an untapped gem. He is what he is and will be.
We can revisit this thread in 3 years if he signs for us and the same complaints made about his game now will be those made then.
Mooresinho
Michael Brown
Wrong reply sorry.
greatwhitenorf
Edgar Davids
It's always esthetically pleasing to watch teams pick the locks rival teams set for them. But they don't give out any more points when one team just decides to bash the damn door down.
Mooresinho
Michael Brown
You do know that Davinson Sanchez cost us £42m and 4 years ago right?
greatwhitenorf
Edgar Davids
Don't be vague, Mooresy. Spell it all out.
Mooresinho
Michael Brown
Just think £40m is nothing these days. A steal for someone like him. People say he has no end product but that's a cop out and said with no real back up. Its the people on the end that also contribute to that stat by not scoring. He smashed in a goal against us and has something we lack, raw pace and power.
Also, that if Sanchez went for £42m and he's atrocious, then spending £40m on Traore makes that look like deal of the century.
SteveAWOL
Chris Jones
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
So this is the Jorge Mendes transfer
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I mostly agree, for technical and physical attributes, though perhaps 17 is a bit early imo.
Just to mention, the brain is typically fully developed at around 25, though the last stages of that are mostly connected to the prefrontal cortex, not associated with physical movements, but more planning, understanding consequences, decision making (not necessarily on the pitch decision making). Learning new things is generally a lot easier with a developing brain than a developed brain.
Players do find different ways to use existing technical abilities, can add more consistency, decision making, movement, tactical stuff after 25 easier than technical stuff. That's where I think there could be improvement from Traore. See Walker, Rose, Dembele etc.
Players can get better at technical stuff too, it's just really hard to get to a point where that shines through or makes a real difference at a high level. Getting to a point of being standout or even very good at something from a point of being not very good is really difficult at this level. Small incremental improvements aren't as noticeable, and only rarely makes a big difference.
I find it really hard to find good specific examples to the contrary, but I feel they should exist if one drilles far enough down into specific technical abilities, but that will probably be from a starting point of having similar or related abilities.
Kane has improved his long range passing for example. It was always quite good (to your point, and why it's not a good example to the contrary), but got better imo. That's from a starting point of excellent ball striking technique. He hasn't been able to master free kicks at all though, despite that baseline of being a great ball striker.
That's one of the hardest working footballers in world, desperate for more goals and ways to score. Even in static situations where you don't have to execute skills with limited time and space. With great baseline technique at the starting point. I think that speaks to how difficult it is.
Yes and no on La Masia. He came through at a time when they'd pretty much stopped producing great players (for a while).
Not an excuse, says nothing about his future, just a pedantic point of view.
I think he could refine how he uses his skills. I think he could be put and get into more situations to use his skills to good effect.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Season before last his xA per 90 was 0.26 according to understat. Excluding players with a really low sample size that season that just puts him in the top 20 that season for that stat.
Similar numbers to Salah, Buendia, Bernardo Silva, Neto, Sterling, Son, Mane. Not that far off Alexander Arnold (0.32). None of our players did better that season.
Season before he had 0.23. Even last season he had 0.18, clear step up from the 0.05 and 0.08 he delivered at Villa and Middlesbrough.
As a point of reference Son had 0.27 and Kane had 0.22 last season.
That's with him taking very few set pieces as far as I know. Don't know of a site that does xA excluding set pieces, but I imagine his numbers compared to some others would look even better if those numbers were available.
His xG buildup numbers are less impressive, though imo not terrible for someone playing his role.
Not enough goals though. But as has been pointed out by others that's not really a result of poor finishing, but rather him not getting into many good goalscoring opportunities. If that's just a weakness of his game or a result of playing style for Wolves I'm not convinced either way. Tough at Wolves he very much had that wide right role a lot of the time. Even a wing back behind him in Doherty who thrived on coming inside rather than around the outside. At least partly system I would argue.
Either way it might be the kind of thing that can be improved.
Similar numbers to Salah, Buendia, Bernardo Silva, Neto, Sterling, Son, Mane. Not that far off Alexander Arnold (0.32). None of our players did better that season.
Season before he had 0.23. Even last season he had 0.18, clear step up from the 0.05 and 0.08 he delivered at Villa and Middlesbrough.
As a point of reference Son had 0.27 and Kane had 0.22 last season.
That's with him taking very few set pieces as far as I know. Don't know of a site that does xA excluding set pieces, but I imagine his numbers compared to some others would look even better if those numbers were available.
His xG buildup numbers are less impressive, though imo not terrible for someone playing his role.
Not enough goals though. But as has been pointed out by others that's not really a result of poor finishing, but rather him not getting into many good goalscoring opportunities. If that's just a weakness of his game or a result of playing style for Wolves I'm not convinced either way. Tough at Wolves he very much had that wide right role a lot of the time. Even a wing back behind him in Doherty who thrived on coming inside rather than around the outside. At least partly system I would argue.
Either way it might be the kind of thing that can be improved.
He's a gamble, and an expensive one if it costs us a player in another position. To me it comes down to one thing
- Do we have a specific role in mind for him (and I don't mean just RW), do we think he brings something unique that will make the team better?
Said it before, if there is plan, something along the lines of him wide one side, Bergwijn/Gil wide the other, creating extra space for some combination of Son/Kane/Dele to run into. Additionally will probably create huge space behind him, if he can pass back quickly to the RB (Tanganga?) and they can switch plays or pick out runners, that might make sense.
If the idea is he will suddenly improve and start assisting/scoring goals = no, not at the money quoted.
Lost Mango
Pascal Chimbonda
I'm a little confused. Haven't seen much more than highlights of Traore until this week-end really. What position does he normally play? People are planning on him being RW if he signs for us but he was LW for Wolves at the week-end up against Japhet, wasn't he?
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I can think of at least two roles he could be fairly well suited to. Alternatively a combination of the two depending on opponents, game flow etc.
-One of the wider players in our narrow front three. I think that would be rather interesting to see how he would do there. Not entirely sure he's an immediate upgrade on Bergwijn or Lucas, though definitely a somewhat different option. See the tweet from Harry Brooks earlier in this thread about him being used centrally.
-If we want an actual wide player on the right ahead of a more defensive right back like Tanganga in a wonky. That's a real hard role to do well for a lot of players. Not a lot of possibilities for combination play with the full back, having to take on a lot of the attacking responsibility on your own down that side. I think he would do that better than most really, it's kind of what he does.
Essentially pairing the immovable object (Tanganga) with an unstoppable force (Traore) on the right. Yes, that's not fully serious.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Son-----Kane-----Traore is a front 3 that has a bit of everything. Would scare the opposition to death.
There is also the opportunity to play: Bergwijn-----Son------Traore which would be ideally suited to counter attacking teams that like to play a high line.
Though I think that we might actually look to play Traore as an impact sub for the last 30 minutes of games. He is hard enough to stop when up against a player equally as fresh as him. Against a tiring defence he would be unstoppable and get us up the pitch time after time.
Finney Is Back
Luka Modric
Something that am very impressed by with Traore is that he us one of those rare players that can beat a player on either side....
Most wingers or dribblers always tend to beat a player on the same side and can end up being a bit predictable as a result. Traore doesn't seem to really favour a side, which is probably one of the reasons why he is so successful at dribbling.
I know he is not a complete player and there are big question marks about his end product but bringing him in will lift the fans at our stadium, give us an outball to get ourselves up the pitch and create lots of space for our other attacking players who have superb end product. I think it is also likely we are going through with this signing as he is a player available to be purchased on the never never and there are probably very few players in the top bracket that can be brought in for very little payment in 2021.
Most wingers or dribblers always tend to beat a player on the same side and can end up being a bit predictable as a result. Traore doesn't seem to really favour a side, which is probably one of the reasons why he is so successful at dribbling.
I know he is not a complete player and there are big question marks about his end product but bringing him in will lift the fans at our stadium, give us an outball to get ourselves up the pitch and create lots of space for our other attacking players who have superb end product. I think it is also likely we are going through with this signing as he is a player available to be purchased on the never never and there are probably very few players in the top bracket that can be brought in for very little payment in 2021.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
The latter bit is key to why IMO
We don’t have worry about cash we don’t have
He also adds to the speed of attack which is clearly a Nuno key tactic
It’s also why I think he won’t play Tanguy as he isn’t about speed although we know he can pass quickly
Well, the tiring theory could be real, here's an option for you
Bergwijn/Gil on one side, Traore/Lucas on the other
Start the game with one, sub the other in at 65/70 minutes.
Gazza
Frederic Kanoute
If your brought traore on to tire out the opposition for the last 10 minutes would be good as long as he doesn't touch the ball .... could you imagine him one on one with the keeper in the 90th minute for the win ... zokora & sissoko throw back.
Surely for the money there are better more effective players out there.
Surely for the money there are better more effective players out there.
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
I’m sure there are…. But they may not be gettable/financeable
I think traore is