Isn't it better to lose in the semis than to lose in the final?
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3rd Place or FA Cup?
- Thread starter Jim Bob
- Start date
Isn't it better to lose in the semis than to lose in the final?
Precisely.
The reason I want to achieve success in the league is so that we can attract high quality players and therefore put together a team that is capable of winning trophies.
We've got high quality players and a capable team. So let's try to win some fudging trophies!
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
The hypothetical question was 3rd OR FA Cup.
If we finish 3rd Tottenham Hotspur have more opportunity to grow and succeed.
If we win the cup (which would be great) Tottenham Hotspur get entry into the EUROPA league.
One of these is a glorious day consigned to history the next morning, the other is an opportunity to build more lasting success. For me its a no brainer, and far from 'nonsense'
Hence why the question was twisted into 3rd or 4th AND the FA Cup. To try and level the options.
For me though there is still a problem with 4th, and thats the fact you arent a CL team until the very last week of August. That means you are not going to sign the likes of Eden Hazzard (as is the latest wonderlink) unless he still happens to be at his current club at the start of next season (not likely).
It means that instead of careful strategic squad building we have a huge ????? right up until the death of the window at which point we rush around like contestants on Supermarket Sweep.
As much as I like the idea of winning the FA cup, Im still not sure its a winning choice for me.
And I reiterate, if its that close a decision, its far from nonsense - and that in fact "nonsense" is being "all about the here and now".
4th doesnt get you into the group stages of the CL - 3rd does. Therefore 3rd place is much much bigger than a 4th place finish. Would much rather finish 3rd than finish 4th and win the cup
Shame really as I usually am a traditionalist and used to love the FA CUp as a kid. However the CL has massively devalued the FA Cup and there's not much you can do about that now
Shame really as I usually am a traditionalist and used to love the FA CUp as a kid. However the CL has massively devalued the FA Cup and there's not much you can do about that now
That was Leeds approach around the early 2000's.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I dont think the CL has devalued the FA cup (though there is the idea that the likes of Utd/Chelsea kicking the FA cup to the curb in their priorities has - which is due to the CL indirectly)
I just think the CL offers more to an entire club, exposure, kudos, money, attraction to top players...
The FA cup offers you a clorious day in the sun, and thats it...
I just think the CL offers more to an entire club, exposure, kudos, money, attraction to top players...
The FA cup offers you a clorious day in the sun, and thats it...
We can sell the club to some money launderers from the Middle East and have that in a day. But that's another debate all together
Bishop
John Lacy
Winning the FA Cup would be nice but I can't pretend that it would mean as much as it did to me the last we did it. The competition just doesn't have the importance and prestige it used to hold. What do we gain from winning it really, a trophy in the cupboard but does it raise our finances or notoriety significantly? I don't see it.
I've always seen our ultimate aim as being to finish as high up the table as possible, and if 3rd is as high as that will be this season that is where I want to finish. Your league position says a hell of a lot more about a team's true quality over knockout cup competition in which progress can be very much down to he luck of the draw.
3rd for me.
I've always seen our ultimate aim as being to finish as high up the table as possible, and if 3rd is as high as that will be this season that is where I want to finish. Your league position says a hell of a lot more about a team's true quality over knockout cup competition in which progress can be very much down to he luck of the draw.
3rd for me.
The biggest reason the FA cup has been devalued is because of supporter attitudes IMO. There is plenty that we can do about it...like not turning our noses up at it.
I support the club because I dream of glorious days in the sun. The only reason I value exposure, kudos, money, attraction to top players, etc. is becaue I hope that they will give me the chance to enjoy that glorious day in the sun.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Which is exactly my point. CL = more money = more credibility = better players = better team = more trophies.
Thats the theory anyway. Of course it isnt guaranteed, but it increases a clubs chances ten fold compared to not being in it.
Thats the theory anyway. Of course it isnt guaranteed, but it increases a clubs chances ten fold compared to not being in it.
Howard Webb
Clive Wilson
agree.
however, this is hypothetical. Im sure if we get to the Fa Cup Final there wont be anyone actively wanting to finish 4th to appease the football gods in exchange for a win. Those people are called idiots!
Winning the FA cup - guaranteed trophy
Finishing 3rd - increases chances of winning trophy
Personally I think that if we qualify for the CL, we will be having the same conversation next season. "Yes it would be great to win a trophy, but the important thing is to ensure that we qualify for the CL in consecutive years as that would enhance our reputation and improve our chances of winning trophies in the future." And so on.
Good things don't last forever. We're riding high and improving now, but who knows what's around the corner? I bet Leeds wish they had won some cups back in the early 2000s - they've got nothing to show for their supposed 'success' now.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Winning the FA cup - guaranteed trophy
Finishing 3rd - increases chances of winning trophy after trophy
Slight edit, perspective and all that
I respect you see things differently, and my only motivation for getting involved was to counter the idea that anything but "living in the now" was nonsense.
Ive done that, so wont be pursuing a lengthly and futile debate about how we both see things differently and wont change our opinions either.
Just to reiterate though, I would LOVE to win the FA cup. It would be fantastic. I just like the longer term view of winning the FA Cup again and again LOL
Finishing 3rd - increases chances of winning trophy after trophy
Slight edit, perspective and all that
I respect you see things differently, and my only motivation for getting involved was to counter the idea that anything but "living in the now" was nonsense.
Ive done that, so wont be pursuing a lengthly and futile debate about how we both see things differently and wont change our opinions either.
Just to reiterate though, I would LOVE to win the FA cup. It would be fantastic. I just like the longer term view of winning the FA Cup again and again LOL
So do I mate...I'm just forever sceptical about it happening and would rather take the opportunity now in case it's our best chance.
FA cup + 3rd please!
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
indeed you can absolutely guarantee that people will still not be wanting to win the fa cup next season if haven't won it this and are in a similar position.
much easier to build up the club to qualify fairly regularly for the CL but you can't pick and choose when you might win a pot.
i'd rather qualify for the CL 5 years out of 10 and win 2 or 3 trophies than spend 10 years in a row in it winning nothing. surely it's not a difficult choice ?
day in the sun please
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Not when we've lost 5 times in the semis in the last 20 years. Of course they would both hurt.
Agreed.
As painful as defeat in the final would be, it's time that we broke that semi final hoodoo.
Plus, an FA Cup final appearance would be worth, at a guess, an added ?ú2-3 million to the club. Not to be sneezed at.