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OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Monaco ** 22/10/25.

SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
This is exactly what I’m talking about with the deep 6 and the high 4. It’s simply not chemistry, inexperience or anything other than the front 4 are totally isolated and we have to hit them with direct balls.

Would Kolo and Solanke help us in this system? Absolutely. Does it inspire confidence that this is what we’re doing, seemingly as our primary offensive tactic? It doesn’t for me.

Even against Villarreal at home, the shape was different because it almost looked like a 4-1-5. In theory it’s an adaptation to take more of a risk because we’re favoured to win. But the primary way of moving forward was to go direct. It’s frankly making Xavi a bit of wasted selection at the moment. I see why he didn’t start last night with the way we intended to set up.
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It’s really toss tactics that got Nuno sacked
Last night should have been a 3 nil defeat but our keeper did what he does best
We can’t rely on that every game
Injuries are a concern but that’s where I want Frank’s flexibility to come into play. It’s exactly what I wanted him
 
thfcsteff said:
Watch Simons when he is playing with Odobert. Against Villa there were several occasions where he is moving into half spaces as Odobert is on the ball yet the pass does not come because Odobert simply holds onto it too long/tries to beat a man/ends up having to go backwards. This is absolutely chemistry to an extent, and players pick up the styles of others quickly. We are not utilizing Xavi properly.

We are a work in progress, agreed. The fear is that when we have players back and have bedded in, we will still be playing the same style i.e. crosses for chances. I don't think that is a sustainable model for success, especially at this club.
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Agree. Apart from the last bit. If we’re crossing and scoring, no one’s concerned. It’s the crossing and not scoring that is the issue! And it is a bit forced and predictable rn. But it is early days and we have lots of young players who are developing. Give it some time.
 
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thfcsteff said:
Watch Simons when he is playing with Odobert. Against Villa there were several occasions where he is moving into half spaces as Odobert is on the ball yet the pass does not come because Odobert simply holds onto it too long/tries to beat a man/ends up having to go backwards. This is absolutely chemistry to an extent, and players pick up the styles of others quickly. We are not utilizing Xavi properly.

We are a work in progress, agreed. The fear is that when we have players back and have bedded in, we will still be playing the same style i.e. crosses for chances. I don't think that is a sustainable model for success, especially at this club.
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Simon’s knows where to be
The others don’t know how or when to pass
Quite worrying
Kudus is in that too
There are issues with him being out best player
He never takes the foul when he gets smashed
He also rides that first challenge and then sometime stumbles into the next one
The guys class but we need to get his football smarts working
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s tinkle poor tactics
Hence the big hole in midfield leaving everyone isolated

View attachment 20659
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Thomas Frank is clever and also has a massive team of experts to help, so this is by design.

He feels that if Monaco commit 6 players to the press, whilst our keeper has the ball, we can leave 4 up top versus their 4 defenders.

A 4 on 4 situation should be promising if we have good players that can get the flipping ball under control and actually attack.

E.g. if we had [[the in-form versions of]] Salah Ekitike Isak and Wirtz vs 4 defenders, we would fancy it.
 
Bullet said:
Thomas Frank is clever and also has a massive team of experts to help, so this is by design.

He feels that if Monaco commit 6 players to the press, whilst our keeper has the ball, we can leave 4 up top versus their 4 defenders.

A 4 on 4 situation should be promising if we have good players that can get the flipping ball under control and actually attack.

E.g. if we had [[the in=-form versions of]] Salah Ekitike Isak and Wirtz vs 4 defenders, we would fancy it.
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Love the positivity
It reminds me of what nuno did vs arsenal more than what pool do
 
Note also; Monaco are not mugs, they have some good players that will soon be playing for toppity top sides.

Note Villa just lost to Go-Ahead Eagles, whatever that is!!!
And Palace just lost at home to AEK Larnaca FFS?!!!
 
Legohamster said:
I guess the question is do you trust Frank to move us on from the disaster of the league form in the previous couple of years

I do, he's a clever man and will know we need to improve and how to do it.

We need a couple of windows.
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I don’t think he’ll get us as high a finish as the 5th place that we achieved in Ange’s first season.
 
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Bullet said:
Thomas Frank is clever and also has a massive team of experts to help, so this is by design.

He feels that if Monaco commit 6 players to the press, whilst our keeper has the ball, we can leave 4 up top versus their 4 defenders.

A 4 on 4 situation should be promising if we have good players that can get the flipping ball under control and actually attack.

E.g. if we had [[the in-form versions of]] Salah Ekitike Isak and Wirtz vs 4 defenders, we would fancy it.
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I get the theory, but in reality because the gap is so large we’re relying on a direct ball, hoping to win the 50-50. This means it’s extremely hard to exhibit any sort of control and this is why typically teams who had less good players played this way, because they could afford to buy the physical players and not the most talented ones.

As much as I dislike Arteta’s whole vibe, he has Arsenal maximising physicality in set plays while exhibiting control in possession. I’d like to think that’s where we’re trying to get to, I just don’t know how what we’re currently doing even evolves to that. Because the selections and the positioning just doesn’t allow for it.

The caveat to this is that the PSG game proved it can work, because we essentially gave ourselves two outballs in Richy and Kudus and had enough luck on the counter that it looked quite good. So maybe there is something in how and when we make that pass. I do wonder though if we hadn’t gotten two set piece goals against PSG whether the system would have ‘looked as good’, or whether we just look back on the performance more fondly because we got ahead and looked like we were exploiting PSG, like we had the initiative and it was on our terms. If we went two down and played the same way, maybe that performance would have gotten a lot of the same criticism as last nights’, especially if it came later in the season and Frank had less good will.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
This is exactly what I’m talking about with the deep 6 and the high 4. It’s simply not chemistry, inexperience or anything other than the front 4 are totally isolated and we have to hit them with direct balls.

Would Kolo and Solanke help us in this system? Absolutely. Does it inspire confidence that this is what we’re doing, seemingly as our primary offensive tactic? It doesn’t for me.

Even against Villarreal at home, the shape was different because it almost looked like a 4-1-5. In theory it’s an adaptation to take more of a risk because we’re favoured to win. But the primary way of moving forward was to go direct. It’s frankly making Xavi a bit of wasted selection at the moment. I see why he didn’t start last night with the way we intended to set up.
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Exactly!
 
Bullet said:
Note also; Monaco are not mugs, they have some good players that will soon be playing for toppity top sides.

Note Villa just lost to Go-Ahead Eagles, whatever that is!!!
And Palace just lost at home to AEK Larnaca FFS?!!!
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Absolutely. Monaco are a very good side. So are we.
 
Robspur12 said:
We need

But that is just one point in time. If you freeze any point in time in a game, I’m sure you could draw whatever conclusions you want.
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You could see this shape at many points during the game, it was very intentional and deliberate.

To caveat everything I’ve been saying, maybe Frank also feels like with the tough run of fixtures coming up, we need to be excellent playing this way. And then maybe we’ll loosen up if we have a run of easier fixtures.

Who knows…I really do get what he’s doing in theory. I just think jury is out on whether he’s going to change, when, and whether that’s ideal or right for our club. Yes Brentford evolved, but I just go back to the fact that we aren’t Brentford.
 
Brentford were one of the highest goal scorers last season. His team,when I watched them play were very dynamic; I really believe people are over thinking at the moment. It’s very hard to drill a fluid attacking unit while we have players missing and new players trying to settle in.
 
Essentially, i think this is a season where we will see if Thomas will evolve as a coach/manager. He has all the tools to do so, and possesses elite intelligence from what I can see. It will be some journey if he does...
 
Robspur12 said:
Brentford were one of the highest goal scorers last season. His team,when I watched them play were very dynamic; I really believe people are over thinking at the moment. It’s very hard to drill a fluid attacking unit while we have players missing and new players trying to settle in.
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If he is going to double-down on this style of play (fast, direct via wide areas with lots of crosses and little progression/development through the middle of the pitch) then he is going to need better players in key areas. I think there's an interesting use of the word 'dynamic' here, because I think he does want us to be dynamic in wide areas; but is he interested in verve and dynamism via a passing game? Flowing, passing football through the middle too? I don't think so. But I also agree that to come to any conclusions on anything right now would be absolute madness, and that May will tell us a lot more.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
As much as I dislike Arteta’s whole vibe, he has Arsenal maximising physicality in set plays while exhibiting control in possession. I’d like to think that’s where we’re trying to get to, I just don’t know how what we’re currently doing even evolves to that. Because the selections and the positioning just doesn’t allow for it.
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Arteta is 6 years in and spent a brick ton of money. It really isn’t a good comparison with where we are in the manager’s cycle.
 
Robspur12 said:
Arteta is 6 years in and spent a brick ton of money. It really isn’t a good comparison with where we are in the manager’s cycle.
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And i think given the time and money spent AND lack of trophies, it puts into perspective where we are and how far too early this is to make any assumptions on Frank.

It's so so so early to be making any long term calls, I suspect it's those that didn't want him and wanting managers from Super clubs who are going early
 
thfcsteff said:
Essentially, i think this is a season where we will see if Thomas will evolve as a coach/manager. He has all the tools to do so, and possesses elite intelligence from what I can see. It will be some journey if he does...
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This is my hope. I was sceptical because I've not been a particular fan of his football at Brentford. But he's a really good guy, demonstrates clear intelligence about the game and let's be fair has us around where we should be and without a good few players he would like to be using.

Time is what he deserves, but unfortunately that is never a guarantee in the modern game. Here's hoping to seeing some green shoots soon....
 
Robspur12 said:
Brentford were one of the highest goal scorers last season. His team,when I watched them play were very dynamic; I really believe people are over thinking at the moment. It’s very hard to drill a fluid attacking unit while we have players missing and new players trying to settle in.
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How much of that was players having their peak season and how much was tactical we don’t know
They smashed some sides for sure
 
Robspur12 said:
Brentford were one of the highest goal scorers last season. His team,when I watched them play were very dynamic; I really believe people are over thinking at the moment. It’s very hard to drill a fluid attacking unit while we have players missing and new players trying to settle in.
Click to expand...

Exactly, improving defence can be a lot easier than the attacking side of the game.
 
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