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Mathys Tel

Bishop said:
The difference with Savio is that those who are proclaiming his potential and quality have actually watched him play and perform to a high level previously. So it's not quite the same scenario as it is with Tel. Then add that a player not good enough for City might still good be enough for many or even most teams. A player not good enough for 17th placed Spurs doesn't quite have the same space below.

I don't really buy your argument about not wanting to see a player develop. I am for example quite hopeful for Odobert because in him I see quite some potential, not to be generational or anything but just a good level attacker and hopefully one that is good enough to offer us something. I just don't see that with Tel. I may well be wrong (hopefully), but I'm not gonna lie about how I perceive him currently.
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Yeah it’s a nonsense argument. I’d be willing to allow players to develop if I could see the raw talent like we could see in Bale. Kane surprised everyone by how good he ended up, but like you, I don’t see that with Tel. I hope the crowd don’t make him a spacegoat and get on his back, he doesn’t deserve that treatment provided he puts the effort in.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Agreed.

When people say they ‘don’t see it’ with Tel it really surprises me. He has pace, he can beat a man with skill, he can put in a great cross and has a mean shot. He is also clearly determined and has a smart head on his shoulders.

I think he just needs a run to put it all together. It’s confidence and opportunity. And right now clearly the squad is settling in together and learning how to perform De Zerbi’s system which typically takes a few games to click. I think in 2 months time we’ll all be having a very different conversation.
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I really don't think he is that quick or has a trick to beat a man which is a huge problem for a winger.
 
Bishop said:
The difference with Savio is that those who are proclaiming his potential and quality have actually watched him play and perform to a high level previously. So it's not quite the same scenario as it is with Tel. Then add that a player not good enough for City might still good be enough for many or even most teams. A player not good enough for 17th placed Spurs doesn't quite have the same space below.

I don't really buy your argument about not wanting to see a player develop. I am for example quite hopeful for Odobert because in him I see quite some potential, not to be generational or anything but just a good level attacker and hopefully one that is good enough to offer us something. I just don't see that with Tel. I may well be wrong (hopefully), but I'm not gonna lie about how I perceive him currently.
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Not arguing for Tel (I think he's in last chance mode with us right now), but 19 year old Tel at Bayern showed something. Now is it the regression young talented players show before pushing on, or was it just a moment (like it is for so many young players)? don't know.

I just wouldn't say he's never shown talent.
 
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Raziel said:
Not arguing for Tel (I think he's in last chance mode with us right now), but 19 year old Tel at Bayern showed something. Now is it the regression young talented players show before pushing on, or was it just a moment (like it is for so many young players)? don't know.

I just wouldn't say he's never shown talent.
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When I watched Bayern (sparodically admittedly) he never stood out or I never even noticed or remembered him as a player. It's possible I just never saw any matches he happened to play in. I just don't think he has "it", from his touches, to his dribbling or his shooting I just don't see anything standout. Everything is just mediocre imo.

It's definetly possible that one day it alm just clicks and that elevates his game to a higher level, I just have serious doubts but would happily be be wrong on this one.

I kind of feel the whole Bayern talent thing is a little overstated, before we were linked with him I don't really recall him pinging on my radar as being one of those super talented young players that get mentioned and you hear about.

A path to success for him I do kind of see is if he's able to become highly efficient. I don't see him ever being someone who beats players for fun, but if he can get to a level where he's able to pick and choose his moments and be very decisive in those moments, scoring or assisting then that might well be what makes him as a player.
 
Bishop said:
When I watched Bayern (sparodically admittedly) he never stood out or I never even noticed or remembered him as a player. It's possible I just never saw any matches he happened to play in. I just don't think he has "it", from his touches, to his dribbling or his shooting I just don't see anything standout. Everything is just mediocre imo.

It's definetly possible that one day it alm just clicks and that elevates his game to a higher level, I just have serious doubts but would happily be be wrong on this one.

I kind of feel the whole Bayern talent thing is a little overstated, before we were linked with him I don't really recall him pinging on my radar as being one of those super talented young players that get mentioned and you hear about.

A path to success for him I do kind of see is if he's able to become highly efficient. I don't see him ever being someone who beats players for fun, but if he can get to a level where he's able to pick and choose his moments and be very decisive in those moments, scoring or assisting then that might well be what makes him as a player.
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Not going to pretend I watched a bunch of Bayern games with a focus on Tel, 3 years ago.

That said, his numbers at 17/18 playing for the best team, in a top league (12 in 52 in the league, as a non-regular starter teenager? 16 in 69 in all comps) are good, as well as some of stats around his game.

Re the last piece, I agree he's got find his thing, he's got a very good sneaky pass, perhaps to your last point, I think the immediate area for improvement is speed of action, he tends to receive ball and hesitate, if he acted faster, either pass or take on the man immediately, it would make him more useful. Additionally, as the front line improves, he has to learn to take advantage of space when teams double up on Savio/Marmoush/Kudus.

Realistically, as Kudus, Maddison, Deki and the new players settle in, I think he gets relegated to bench option
 
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The one thing that irritates me about him is since he scored that free kick in pre season he now thinks he is the king of free kings, and he appears to have freedom to take every single one.

I think that needs to stop as I would suggest that at the very least Marmoush is a better free kick taker. At the very least it needs to be rotated.
 
mjc23 said:
I really don't think he is that quick or has a trick to beat a man which is a huge problem for a winger.
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This is what I don’t understand about the Tel analysis among our fanbase…if you watched the Brentford game you would have seen him beat his man repeatedly. Against Hoffenheim he did it too. And it isn’t all knock and run.

I agree that speed of thought to action is a key thing, and hopefully that improves as RDZ’s system starts to click. I also agree that he needs to start to perform this season. He’s been handed a reprieve by the failure to get Gakpo or Ndiaye. So he’s gotta make the most of it, he can’t be a project forever.

But I just do think he has some raw talent. And I do think that in 2 months, we’ll be having a different conversation.
 
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Mikey10 said:
Had some bellend behind me in the South calling Archie a c*** every time he touched the ball on Saturday. Started from 5 minutes in. I just don’t get why you go along to watch a game and get on like that. It’s pathetic.
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Not many settings where it's apparently normal behaviour to abuse a 20 year old lad as he's doing his job.
I commend your restraint at (presumably) not punching him (or her) full in the mouth
 
Mikey10 said:
Had some bellend behind me in the South calling Archie a c*** every time he touched the ball on Saturday. Started from 5 minutes in. I just don’t get why you go along to watch a game and get on like that. It’s pathetic.
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Well they do say there is a idiot born every minute, sadly they do tend to go to football and it seems to be getting worse.
 
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Bishop said:
The difference with Savio is that those who are proclaiming his potential and quality have actually watched him play and perform to a high level previously..
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You might of, many havent and have clung on to the idea of it and the fee.

At the end of the day, players like Tel and Savio will need backing equally

Hell....As mentioned here, Tonali needs it too and he is established PL.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Yeah it’s a nonsense argument. I’d be willing to allow players to develop if I could see the raw talent like we could see in Bale. Kane surprised everyone by how good he ended up, but like you, I don’t see that with Tel. I hope the crowd don’t make him a spacegoat and get on his back, he doesn’t deserve that treatment provided he puts the effort in.
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You didn’t see that raw talent in Bale or Kane at all. No one did!
 
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